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5/5 Dumb river spot

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02-02-2018 , 12:39 AM

jchauvin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,761

V1 seems a bit gambly and limpy, no hard reads, has been at table a while. $1200

V2 is new to the table, young guy not a reg, came over just now complaining about a bad beat at the 3/5. $450

MP is brand new to table as well $500

Hero covers

V1 UTG $25, MP flat, V2 flats CO, Hero $125 otb AsAd, all call

Jh 9c 7c ($502)

Checked to hero $225, v1 call, mp fold, v2 call

Turn 8d ($1177)

Checked around

River 5c ($1177)

v1 takes 15 seconds and checks, v2 jams $125. ?

Thought this was kind of a sick spot with a player behind. And should flop be sized differently?

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02-02-2018 , 02:21 AM

matzah_ball

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,726

Flop should be checked

As played I think we have to fold. How sad.

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02-02-2018 , 03:50 AM

Matty_poker1

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by matzah_ball

Flop should be checked

As played I think we have to fold. How sad.

I disagree that the flop should be checked, you will get called by plenty worse and you charge the club/straight draw. You need to try and deny that equity of those draws so I think its a clear bet. On the river you're getting 10/1 on a call so I don't see how you fold.

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02-02-2018 , 04:10 AM

NewClintEastwood

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 166

I'd do anything besides betting what you did on the flop. Almost all turns suck and 225 accomplishes nothing. I like betting enough to put shorter stacks in on the flop. With such a juicy pot it isn't even an overbet. As played it is a sick runout but at 10:1 I still pay it off.

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02-02-2018 , 11:07 AM

shorn7

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,495

I think I bet more like $375 on the flop or check and try to get to SD very cheaply. Turn sucks and I don't care what odds you are getting on river with V1 still to act (especially after 15 seconds of thinking....that to me is more "how to I best get value for my hand" and not "crap, I have a bluff catcher only now and don't think a blocker will get through"). I muck...HU last to act, I would call with those odds (with the explicit understanding that my hand is a bliff catcher only).

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02-02-2018 , 12:02 PM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,771

So gross. On flop, I either bet bigger to charge draws or check, and I think either is fine with this flop and this many players.

Makes me a little ill, but I fold the river. Definitely calling heads up, although I doubt you are ahead of even V2.

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02-02-2018 , 12:14 PM

twitcherroo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 2,482

I like the preflop sizing. I would have sized up on turn to $300-350. As played probably calling the river all day at 10:1. Not closing action isn’t great but oh well.

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02-02-2018 , 12:28 PM

sai1b0ats

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,463

I like $375 otf against these stacks. You really don't want to be folding ever here.

AP, raising the river is certainly interesting. Really depends on your reads. You don't beat V2 that often, but the math might be there for chasing out V1 for a few hundred. Doesn't sound like V1 fits the right profile. Would consider though.

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02-02-2018 , 01:50 PM

matzah_ball

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by sai1b0ats

Risk several hundred dollars to win 0? Not my preferred strategy.

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02-02-2018 , 02:25 PM

#10

Irunsobad

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 110

Much bigger on the flop, I'd say like 400. Turn check seems fine. River I agree is very sick and is probably a fold with a player behind. If you close the action its a call I think

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02-02-2018 , 04:40 PM

#11

flopturntree

adept

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 867

Bomb wet flop u dont have Ac..

Pre could also be a little bigger

Player shoving could be light with only 135$ but V behind is very concerning and you definitely don't have the best hand by river since 4 to a straight and clubs got there

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02-02-2018 , 05:32 PM

#12

sai1b0ats

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,463

Quote:

Originally Posted by matzah_ball

Risk several hundred dollars to win 0? Not my preferred strategy.

IF we beat V2, say 20% of the time, a call is +$155EV (if V1 not in the hand). So, if we assess that V1 might overcall with something like 2 pair or a straight but would fold if we rep the flush, the play is to raise $300 on top like we're begging for a call. So the raise part of the move is risking $300 to win $155, and thus we need a good read to pull the trigger.

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02-03-2018 , 12:26 AM

#13

matzah_ball

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,726

1. What range can you possibly be putting V2 on where we’re good 20% of the time? I estimate we’re good about 2% of the time, maybe less.

2. What makes you think a straight, or even two pair, is ever going to fold given those odds? If we get called we’ve just punted away quite a bit of money for an unlikely chance of winning the main pot...

This is a terrible play unless you hate money.

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02-03-2018 , 01:30 AM

#14

BackDoorFlush

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 2,171

SPR of ~2; wet board; 3! pot; multiway with AA.

Bomb flop ~$400; shove turn; order drink and have re-buy ready.

Checking the turn when 8x hits the board is a big mistake, IMO.

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02-03-2018 , 06:49 PM

#15

matzah_ball

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,726

You really think we often have the best hand threeway on J987?

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02-04-2018 , 09:13 AM

#16

6bet me

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 3,885

Betting ~$350 on the flop is terrible imo. Either jam 1k or bet ~$200.

I like your play preflop, flop and turn. As played I flat river and fold to a raise.

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