It's just a big leak to open-call SAs from anywhere, and bluntly, 4betting is just theoretical donkr.com evolved nonsense that mostly just helps you avoid open-folding too much of your range. Practically, you're not getting hurt cutting down on bluffs to begin with in this game and definitely not a worry against this player, but if your concern is having FDNFDs avaialable on such boards, you'll still have 16 Axs combos to take to the flop one way or another along with 66/77 as part of a calling range, AQo+/QQ+ rounding out the rest.

There's a reason why SAs are theory-based 4b candidates in the first place, they suck as open-calls from anywhere for a bunch of reasons.

Anyways, before 4b, I would just tune-up my opens around the margins a bit when it starts to get 3-400bb deep. I mean, a guy like this, he's just always flipping in the black chip pre, so why ever consider such a line. All that play is always heavily in IPs favor no matter who they are, and that is tough to combat without a stronger range.

your 4bet sizing it too big imo. 90/100 is fine. I open and sometimes 4bet here as well.

This deep I can see an argument for sizing larger or similar sizing or checking. I dont hate betting but I think its best to give up when your 4bet gets called.

However if you do bet, I like to just keep a standard similar sizing in 3 and 4bet pots for the reason that most opponents still play terrible in 3 and 4bet pots, we can get away for cheaper with our bluffs (which i tend to have more of it seems, i whiff flops a lot ). We can always start implementing overbets on future streets to make up for value if need be or not and wait try to induce with smaller sized river bets say because of depth.

I think ch/calling turn is optimal. Depending on villain's ability to range you, they're going to assume you either wont have a lot of Axdd or correctly assume you have a bunch of Axdd. But by check/calling turn you allow yourself to realize more equity and can make up value on the river with a well sized bet since you can still look like an overpair gong for pot control. You certainly get looked up by a set and if villain is bad you get looked up lighter.

AP i guess you have to call. I think this close BE I sometimes let it go - either because I **** up math at table or I just think there will be easier spots for me to scoop from villain considering reads.

As far as range assumptions - I dont see too many problems considering the shove. Seems a little over board and it might not hurt to stick a club draw in there. You are deep and it seems like villain doesnt like to fold pre. I might drop pairs like 99/TT/JJ out once he shoves though.

Just realised you meant to fold it without opening it, also disagree, a5s from hj is what I can assume always an open - a6/7 is closer though but still seems tight to me

Open calling (for this price) a5s in the hj is 100% +ev no two ways about it. The 4bet is bad considering how deep/how little fe he has/being oop. SA aren't theory based 4bets, they're nut bluff 5bet jams atleast in 6max online games. Obviously this isn't 6max online so yes this 4bet sucks

Board should be terrible for our 4b range. Vs line reads like he is trying to get us off QQ+. Obviously we ae behind a lot of his "bluffs" but we have a ton of outs against a lot of his range and quite a few outs against some of his range, and I think we are actually ahead sometimes. So I call. Probably close to neutral EV but folding is boring.

Well we can't fold now

Pre is fine imo but not what I'd be doing.

Flop is a check/call.

Turn is also a check/call.

River is a check/probably fold to bricks. If he checks back you're likely good. By leading flop & turn you've created a massive pot with a weak hand.

As played just fold. Calling is very small +EV maybe but such high variance that I'm not taking it.

No no 100% open. I need to have this hand from HJ.

For OP sake, one thing is clear, 4b and then bombing flop is double jeopardy, gotta fix that. If the game is super soft then whatever but you can't have this hand oop in a 3b+ pot.

It's a good board for our range. If we had AA we would be betting this turn fearlessly.

Villain 3-bet/called pre-flop. We're not the only one that doesn't have 2P+ on this board very often, if ever.

Yeah this is a 100% triple get stacks in line with AA, if you don't play it this way you're missing so much value. This is a good balance hand for that, though I think river we can often check and have it check through and win some %. I think our turn bet should be bigger, like $380.

Once we get raised we just have too much equity in a huge pot to fold. Pot is so big that folding a hand with high equity is a huge mistake

His 3b-call range is quite wide as a result of 3b wide which is a problem when we can never have 2p/sets/76/less and he does, as well as, AA at some frequency


If your opponents are ******ed enough to stack off 1700 IP against a capped range then go ahead and stack off.

Agree with al of this. This might be a safe board against a standard 5/5 3-bet/call range, but this Villain should be a lot wider than normal. In fact, I expect he calls with pretty much his entire 3-bet range in position, this deep. Especially if he (incorrectly) feels that we are pretty face up with our 4-bet range here. Which calls into question the validity of 4-betting A5s in this spot, but here we are.

As played I think you almost have to call. Yes, you can be beat here maybe even most of the time, but you already know this guy isn't a nut peddler so it's hard to imagine you don't have the odds to call and could even have the best hand.

Other than that, in a deep game your opening size should be larger, even in a non deep 5/5 15 seems pretty small maybe you have a reason but I think it's pretty bad as a standard. Your 4 bet size with stack depths should be a little larger although I'm not sure how I feel about 4-betting A5s with these stacks. It's okay but I expect that V's call a lot and have like a silly tight 5-bet range of like AA/KK, so I'd rather not be polarized but that's sort of exploitative. Flop seems mostly fine, I think you could bet a little more, and definitely should have bet more on the turn. Checking flop/turn seems bad. Once this flop comes out I think you should just plan on getting it in. All the nitty advice might be fine in a normal game but is a recipe for getting chewed up by an aggressive player in a deep stack game.

Real rough numbers:
On the flop we will get all in with three 2/3rds pot bet. Villain can fold 40% of his range per bet and remain unexploitable. In order to have hands that beat one pair here, villain needs to be three betting and calling this 4bet with 33,44,55, 68s, 45s, or A2s. That means a 3b/4b call range of around 14%, which is roughly 150 combos. Over 3 bets, that winnows down to 184*.6^3 40 combos, with 19 of them beating us.

1. I don't think villains 3betting range has 100% of 33,44,55, 45s, or 68s, and even if it does, 45s/68s may fold to a 4bet
2. Even if it does, math would say either we can triple for stacks here with AA, OR we can triple for stacks here with any two cards and be profitable. Are you tripling any two cards here?

So it's just vs this villain and not on a generic 1/3 or 2/5 table, right? Phew.

As if we get lots of extra points from the poker gods playing out of OOP from late position rather than playing out of position UTG.

Given the choice about who is playing well I vote for the guy 3-betting in position as opposed to the guy playing bloated pots out of position and whose gotten tilted enough to 4-bet A5 suited.

I would say there's a very small chance V would fold any of those hands to the 4-bet, in position, getting like 15-1 implied odds against what he probably feels is a pretty face up 4-bet range.

Agreed but he has to 3bet them first, and most people do not 3bet 33/44/55, even with a very high 3b percent

Fair.

However, this guy has now 3-bet us at 4 out of 5 opportunities, including this hand. Either he is running like Jesus, or he has targeted us as a weak mark that he can run over. I think he can have all sorts of hands that we wouldn't normally consider in a 3b/call range. (A6s, 96s, T6s, K6s, 64s, 43s, 57s, 56s plus a whole host of other hands that don't even connect with this board)

I also think his continuing range on the flop is huge. If he has our range as like QQ+, and he thinks he can blow us off our hand on a lot of turn cards, I can see him floating the flop pretty wide here. He gets a scare card on the turn, and we make a weak-looking bet. He doesn't think we can have any 6x or sets/2-pairs in our range, so he puts us to the test on the turn. Of course, he can be bluffing with a hand that is ahead of us on the turn, but I think with our huge equity, plus the uncertainty about the strength of Vs range (ie. we could possibly be ahead, or our 5 and A outs are live), we have to call it off on the turn here.

4b size is bad

So V 3b to 40 after you raise to 15? Terrible spot to 4b just call

Check flop is better than betting

As played call you're always behind just terribly played hand honestly

I mean... I don't really need to ask for help with hands I play perfect.

You need to check on flop or turn, you're at the bottom of your range and you aren't thinking about what hands V is putting you on when you 4b? Then think about the hands he would call with if he puts you on those hands

If you play this way and don't call the shove you're lighting money on fire

Call and hope you bink a diamond on the river. Best case V is also on a flush draw but unlikely considering you already have diamonds. Other 80% of the time you're behind and you should've realized that on flop and check call turn with equity