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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 03-19-2019, 04:43 PM   #26
Koko the munkey
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Re: 5/5 Calling down with overpair on bad runout

One of the biggest leaks that good LLSNL players have is that they assume their opponents would make the same decisions that we do. We analyze hands with the assumption that everyone at the table is at or above our skill level. If that were true, you wouldn't be playing to start with.

BB can certainly show up here with 33-77 absent any real reads, and I didn't see a good description of V in the OP. Just because a guy looks like a winning player doesn't mean he is one. What hands has he shown down or bluffed with? How many pots is he opening? Does he check the 2nd nuts on the river or go for value? Are there any smaller games running or is this the only game in the room? There is simply a ton of information missing from OP and we are essentially readless. Few players at the 5/5 level are going to show up with bluffs here.

You guys are WAAAYYY overthinking this hand IMO.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:32 PM   #27
browni3141
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Re: 5/5 Calling down with overpair on bad runout

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Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
No you don't bet bet bet w QQ in a 3b pot ftb on 7643. It's so sad because if you bet again I'd jam 88 and you'd somehow snap it off and think you got me.
Do you even have a BB cold call range here? Whatís your turn range?
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:07 AM   #28
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Re: 5/5 Calling down with overpair on bad runout

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Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
Do you even have a BB cold call range here? Whatís your turn range?
Pre prob nothing w 100% frequency, but Iím gonna have some hands played as a call depending a bit on MP as well as SB tendencies, depth too. I might spew w some pairs mixed w AA specifically, AKs might make for a decent call sometimes. What I can say for sure is that my flop calling range has SB demolished. Itís by no means some standard spot, but if Iím seeing the turn I have SB crushed range wise and Iím gonna play it as such.
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Old 03-20-2019, 04:41 AM   #29
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Re: 5/5 Calling down with overpair on bad runout

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Originally Posted by Koko the munkey View Post
One of the biggest leaks that good LLSNL players have is that they assume their opponents would make the same decisions that we do. We analyze hands with the assumption that everyone at the table is at or above our skill level. If that were true, you wouldn't be playing to start with.

BB can certainly show up here with 33-77 absent any real reads, and I didn't see a good description of V in the OP. Just because a guy looks like a winning player doesn't mean he is one. What hands has he shown down or bluffed with? How many pots is he opening? Does he check the 2nd nuts on the river or go for value? Are there any smaller games running or is this the only game in the room? There is simply a ton of information missing from OP and we are essentially readless. Few players at the 5/5 level are going to show up with bluffs here.

You guys are WAAAYYY overthinking this hand IMO.

Very good point, wich i certainly agree on. Would you mind eleborating more about this and how you relate this leak to this spesific hand from heros perspective?

Like, do you disagree on the ranging of villain some posters have done or other things? You think its an easy fold because LLSNL population vastly underbluffs in general and for sure on 4 to a flush/4 to straight boards?
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:16 AM   #30
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Re: 5/5 Calling down with overpair on bad runout

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Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
Pre prob nothing w 100% frequency, but Iím gonna have some hands played as a call depending a bit on MP as well as SB tendencies, depth too. I might spew w some pairs mixed w AA specifically, AKs might make for a decent call sometimes. What I can say for sure is that my flop calling range has SB demolished. Itís by no means some standard spot, but if Iím seeing the turn I have SB crushed range wise and Iím gonna play it as such.
So you will occasionally in the BB cold-call a 3! from SB with pocket pairs, and continuing on a 764 flop with a hand like 77 or 55 but folding JJ?

Have I got that right?
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:30 AM   #31
Avaritia
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Re: 5/5 Calling down with overpair on bad runout

The reason I asked for mp1 eff stack was bc flop can be a check/shrug/rip if its <150bbs

Lots of our range has to check/fold so its cool to have a hand we can check/not fold...and all of our value range doesnt care to see a turn anyways on this texture.

On top of this, a typical bb cold call range here is highly weighted to 99-QQ, which will bet when checked to, and possibly sandwhich some extra dead money if mp1 comes along.
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:20 PM   #32
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Re: 5/5 Calling down with overpair on bad runout

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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
So you will occasionally in the BB cold-call a 3! from SB with pocket pairs, and continuing on a 764 flop with a hand like 77 or 55 but folding JJ?

Have I got that right?
No. JJ call flop, Ck back turn, Decide river, Likely folding, but that goes ckck a bunch and SB gets to win the pot when I have 99-QQ and choose to ck back (and he has QQ which isn’t always).
However, I also have have 66-88, 99 perhaps too and for sure KK+ that will be gii one way or another. I won’t ever have 22-44 as those are pretty much always mucks pre.

Truth is, you can take your whole flop cont range and stack off, leaving SB in a spot bc like I said upthread SB is just so capped and already made a betting mistake ($85) on the flop w these stack sizes and bigger. It makes no difference if SB know you like to pressure lol capped ranges bc he can’t do anything about it on 7643 without getting melted.
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Old 03-20-2019, 03:12 PM   #33
AlanBostick
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Re: 5/5 Calling down with overpair on bad runout

(1) "My continuing range includes sets and straights" != "my range crushes SB's"

(2) If your BB range for cold-calling an SB's three-bet of a MP's open includes pocket pairs 77 or less when effective stack is only 130bb, you are losing the war of mistakes big time.
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:12 PM   #34
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Re: 5/5 Calling down with overpair on bad runout

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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
(1) "My continuing range includes sets and straights" != "my range crushes SB's"

(2) If your BB range for cold-calling an SB's three-bet of a MP's open includes pocket pairs 77 or less when effective stack is only 130bb, you are losing the war of mistakes big time.
It’s prob TT+ always and 66+ sometimes. However if I have respect for the SB or MP or shallow (like this), then I’ll button it back up. Takes a lot though for a 25 player to earn my respect, even if they’re winners. 4b KK+ the deeper we go at an equally escalating frequency, along w a few other hands.
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:06 PM   #35
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Re: 5/5 Calling down with overpair on bad runout

Why did we check turn?
If we are checking turn, I prefer a check-jam.

As played on the river I think it's a straightforward call, but depending on villain maybe a straightforward jam for the last $80.
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