Hello Again,
This is a Hand that i played yesterday at the local Casino and is Quote stuck in my Head.
Villain is the Same as in this Hand: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...raise-1512755/

We were playing for about 2 or 3 Hours so we have Seen some Hands.
I bought in for 500 and was up to ~900 Villain covers.
1 limper utg, folds to mp who makes it 30 to go. I Look At qj o in the hj and call, co calls, Villain on Button calls, blinds fold and limper comes along aswell.

5 Players to the Flop ~150
Q74 with 2 hearts (dont really remember but its not that important)
Checks to me and i Check aswell as i dont Want to bloat the pot further with my mediocre holding on this Kind of wet board. Checks around.

Turn is a Black T. ~150
Checks Again to me. I decide to take a Stab At the pot as my Hand seems to be the best At the Moment and i dont want to Give 4 other People another freecard. I Bet 85. co folds. Villain on the Button makes it 230. folds To me.
I Tank a Little and decide to call.
River is the King of ~610
I Check and he Bets 360
Hero ???
My range assumption At this Point was something like 56, 89, TT, qt, j9, ajhh and kj. Maybe some random flush draws.
Thoughts on all Streets besides preflop appreciated

Your spelling of 'At' is tilting and confusing (misread it as the hand AT).
Bet flop for value when checked to.
As played fold turn to raise.

Sorry im on my Phone and it doesnt support english language ^^

But if i Fire Flop and Get raised in a 5 way pot on a kind of wet board im always going to Fold tp middle kicker. cant think of much worse Hands that will pay and we are way ahead of.

Im not folding Turn as i Know he is very well capable of bluffing/semi bluffing.
And he saw me Leading out with middle pair Type hands. IKnow its a marginal Situation but i usually can handle them pretty well.

Obviously b/f'ing flop. Villain is at least as likely or less to semi-bluff or air-ball turn than flop.

I really think b/f Flop is burning Money in the Long run. If u Get raised u end up folding. If You Get called by one or more, the pot is super bloated and You end up c/f a Lot of turns.

Calling the turn check-raise is burning money. Bet/fold the flop is correct, as most of the players aren't ever going to bluff you, and you figure to have the best hand by the river most of the time. You're going to win that bloated pot fairly often without improving.

Also fold pre wtf?

U told us not to comment on pre so I guess u know it's bad

As played
Flop is ok I guess, bet/folding is also good
Turn is a bet/fold, without a river plan ur hand is complete garbage (which is also why u should've folded pre)
River: just fold, if you're feeling incredibly spewy, u can check/jam since u have the J blocker, ull get called 95% of the time but at least u look cool. Just don't check/call please.

There's a fantastic thread here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...m-shyt-457839/

Here's something that you've decided not to appreciate even though it's totally irrelevant and just what you really really need to hear:

SOME MORE POKER ADVICE…
I love all of the posts that say disregard everthing I did before I got check raised all in on the river and just tell me what to do now. Its like, “hey Dad its me billy and im in jail. Don’t ask me why I got drunk (standard). Don’t ask me why I drove (yawn). Don’t ask me how my car ended up in a 7-11 (meh). Just tell me how to keep from getting buttfuqqed tonight.

The truth is the beginning of the hand is the MOST important part…BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT PART. Just like w/ 9 ball every shot sets up the next shot(s).

As stated Villain is very well capable of bluffing and a somewhat competent player. We have some history and he may have sensed some weakness and decided to Give it a try. I agree that it is an Insta Fold against Most other Players.

Lets think about his Range at the Turn. I think he Would have bet any Hand that Beats us on the Flop. As he is on the Button and it was checked through.
So we can discount aq kq 77 44 and of course the weird 2 pair combos.
When he raises i cant Give him much credit for value hands. Only tt and qt Come to my mind. On the other Hand there are a Bunch of hands he can semi Bluff with now as he Most likely assumes im Sitting on a one pair Hand or Even A draw. Think about it

I planned on c/c bricky rivers. But didnt like the k too much.
Of course i Know preflop is not optimal. But You have to Play some hands or You end up getting no Action with your Monsters As you Are Seen as "nit".
Didnt think the Hand Would Get so much hate. I thought it was an interesting spot.

Villain's not the villain until he raises you, he's just one of the 5 guys who are hanging around in the pot you figure to have the best hand in. If you have a read on the villain, then you can consider calling enough of his raises to keep him honest. But you can't let the hypothetical involvement of one guy keep you from betting the flop.

i really think some of you guys are so used to b/f everything mediocre that you don´t even try to put villain on some ranges instead of just blindly b/folding

villains line is indeed super weird, as he pretty much only has TT or QT (discounted slightly as he´d maybe bet flop sometimes with that hand when checked to) as his valuerange, and we know villain is capable of bluffing/semibluffing so prob has some draws in his range too

turn is a call imo

river is interesting too, would villain v bet KJ here? does he follow through if he misses? does he give up? pretty villain dependent spot imo

This !!! Thank You
I thought about what he Would bet otr for a while After the Hand and came to the conclusion that he would bet his rivered straights and tt for value. Not quite sure about QT. Maybe 50/50. and definitly all busted draws. Kj is Most likely a checkback.

bet the flop