Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2021, 07:09 PM   #1
hyperknit
veteran
 
hyperknit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,270
5/5 big spot with AA

5/5 late night game at 2am
7 handed.

UTG is good solid reg. He opens to 20. (1K)

UTG+1 is a tight passive fish. He calls. (300)

HJ is a bad LAG spew fish verging on whale. He calls. (800)

Hero is CO with a solid TAG image. We have AAdh and 3bet squeeze to 100. (650)



BB is solid. Been grinding with this lady all night. She’s a very tight TAG, picking her spots. Then putting pressure on. She seems like she’s very high intensity and a try hard, but probably not that fundamentally sound. She tanks and cold calls the 100?? (700)

UTG calls.

UTG+1 calls.

HJ folds.

4 ways
(425) flop QT5ccs
X x x hero bets 105. BB quickly check raises all in for 600. Folds back to us. Hero?

550 for us to call here getting about 2:1

Could she ever have KK this way and not 4bet pre?? Is this always QQ? AKcc? Are we ever folding here?
hyperknit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 07:48 PM   #2
josofo
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 610
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Yeah I could see her playing kings like that I guess. With the pot already 400 I think you have to pay her off. Also in these multi-way three bet pots I would size up to the size of the pot and bet like 250. Betting bigger also discourage s people making moves on us because we have no fold equity.
josofo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 08:32 PM   #3
Playbig2000
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Playbig2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,495
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

If she's "very tight", I would fold.

I don't understand what "picking her spots" means. Does she bluff?

Has she seen you 3bet before?

Have you seen her call a 3bet before?

From what I can see so far it's a snap fold without thinking twice.

And why would this be kings, after you just 3bet, doesn't she think aces are well within your range?

I also don't like the 1/4 pot sizing but if you folded, it may have helped you.
Playbig2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 06:18 AM   #4
venice10
Referee
 
venice10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nowhere special
Posts: 24,647
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

So why did you bet a 1/4 pot?

1. If it was to induce some calls or raises, mission accomplished. Easy call.
2. If it was to see if your AA is good, mission accomplished. Easy fold.

Can't help you much if the reason was you were clicking buttons.
venice10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 07:30 AM   #5
OmahaDonk
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,278
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Not folding at this spr except vs very specific villains ie OMC or tight passive that never gii without nuts
OmahaDonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 07:40 AM   #6
sdfsgf
grinder
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 500
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10 View Post
So why did you bet a 1/4 pot?

1. If it was to induce some calls or raises, mission accomplished. Easy call.
2. If it was to see if your AA is good, mission accomplished. Easy fold.

Can't help you much if the reason was you were clicking buttons.
Are “inducing” and “seeing if your hand is good” your standard reasons for considering betting?

What about, say, “getting called by worse” or “folding better”?
sdfsgf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 11:21 AM   #7
venice10
Referee
 
venice10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nowhere special
Posts: 24,647
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdfsgf View Post
Are “inducing” and “seeing if your hand is good” your standard reasons for considering betting?

What about, say, “getting called by worse” or “folding better”?
With a SPR less than 2, these aren't considerations. What kind of range do you think will call $105 but fold to $210?
venice10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 11:43 AM   #8
sauhund
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: osiasgriffin
Posts: 5,839
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

I mean, seriously guys, this gets out of hand. Just lol at ever folding.

would 3bet bigger, and bet flop bigger, but whatever, it´s just a call now. QQ is not a range.
sauhund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 12:21 PM   #9
BHDonkey
adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 712
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdfsgf View Post
Are “inducing” and “seeing if your hand is good” your standard reasons for considering betting?

What about, say, “getting called by worse” or “folding better”?
What better hand is folding here? Sets are never folding, and the most likely other hand (Q10suited) isn't either...

Also, AQ is possibly in range too (KJ, J9 too)...I've played with plenty of people who would C/R all-in with those hands.
BHDonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 12:31 PM   #10
MRBA
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 88
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

If you give her a call pre/cr ai on flop range of:

TT, QQ, KK,, AKcc (plus AA which is unlikely)

Then you are buried 1/2 the time, crushing 1/4 of the time and flipping 1/4 of the time.

If you can range her even a tiny bit wider -- basically semibluffing with AK with ace of clubs, or getting out of line with JJ or whatever -- then it's a call.
MRBA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 12:38 PM   #11
sdfsgf
grinder
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 500
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHDonkey View Post
What better hand is folding here? Sets are never folding, and the most likely other hand (Q10suited) isn't either...
I agree they're not -- I'm just saying that "to get called by worse" and "to get better to fold" are almost always the only good reasons to bet. (Generally-bad reasons to bet include "to find out where I'm at", "to protect my hand", "to induce")
sdfsgf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 12:44 PM   #12
tmo1120
adept
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 1,021
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

i would go larger pre , and larger on the flop , when UTG and UTG +1 put money in their ranges are pretty strong so i want to get as much money in there as possible so i'm going at least 120

AP i think you have to call especially with a small bluff inducing sizing otf, if you have a read locked in on the V bc you've played with her for hours and you want to make an exploitative fold then i don't hate it but that's for you to determine
tmo1120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 01:46 PM   #13
Playbig2000
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Playbig2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,495
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk View Post
Not folding at this spr except vs very specific villains ie OMC or tight passive that never gii without nuts
Villain was said to be "very tight".

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHDonkey View Post
Also, AQ is possibly in range too (KJ, J9 too)...I've played with plenty of people who would C/R all-in with those hands.
I have too, but If those hands are in her range, her description of being very tight is way off.
Playbig2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 02:15 PM   #14
DooDooPoker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 11,780
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Pay her off. Too many unknowns.
DooDooPoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 02:55 PM   #15
josofo
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 610
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10 View Post
With a SPR less than 2, these aren't considerations. What kind of range do you think will call $105 but fold to $210?
I think 105 gets more calls but 250-300 we put them in a worst spot. Because if he has qj or kq sure he will call 105. And he is not making a huge mistake because he gets to see one more card and he gets to see what we do on the turn. If we make it 250+ it’s pretty dicey for him already.
josofo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 02:58 PM   #16
OmahaDonk
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,278
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by josofo View Post
I think 105 gets more calls but 250-300 we put them in a worst spot. Because if he has qj or kq sure he will call 105. And he is not making a huge mistake because he gets to see one more card and he gets to see what we do on the turn. If we make it 250+ it’s pretty dicey for him already.
If we are betting 250 we might as well jam 550, which is what I would do
OmahaDonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 03:47 PM   #17
DooDooPoker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 11,780
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Question to the people who think shipping/betting bigger OTF is better.

How do you think bet sizing is determined in poker?
DooDooPoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 05:42 PM   #18
josofo
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 610
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
Question to the people who think shipping/betting bigger OTF is better.

How do you think bet sizing is determined in poker?
Heads up sure do our tricky quarter pot bet. Multiway I think it makes more sense to turn the heat up on these guys.

The size of the pot is already way out of hand. Make it awkward for there solid made hands.


Bet size usually doesn’t effect ev that much anyway, except when it does.
josofo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 05:59 PM   #19
DooDooPoker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 11,780
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by josofo View Post
Heads up sure do our tricky quarter pot bet. Multiway I think it makes more sense to turn the heat up on these guys.

The size of the pot is already way out of hand. Make it awkward for there solid made hands.


Bet size usually doesn’t effect ev that much anyway, except when it does.
You decrease sizing/frequency in multiway pots - not the opposite.

Also bet sizing doesn't affect EV much only IF you play your range correctly.
DooDooPoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 06:48 PM   #20
jdr0317
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,119
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
You decrease sizing/frequency in multiway pots - not the opposite.



Also bet sizing doesn't affect EV much only IF you play your range correctly.

I actually call sizing into question in the live sense. For the most part, people are playing way too many hands. And continuing in multi-way situations too inelastically. “Tighten up, size up” seems to be a good strategy in that sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jdr0317 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2021, 01:23 AM   #21
DooDooPoker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 11,780
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
I actually call sizing into question in the live sense. For the most part, people are playing way too many hands. And continuing in multi-way situations too inelastically. “Tighten up, size up” seems to be a good strategy in that sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think people realize they are exploiting by using this strategy though, they think the exploit is the default and not the deviation.

So then you just exploit by accident.

And then the problem with all these exploits that work vs wide ranges is that if you ever run into someone that plays better ranges you won't really know how to adjust.
DooDooPoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2021, 09:58 PM   #22
hyperknit
veteran
 
hyperknit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,270
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

SPOILER:

I called and she had JJ
hyperknit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2021, 10:34 PM   #23
Playbig2000
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Playbig2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,495
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

She wasn't a very tight tag. Very tight players don't make those kinds of moves. Hopefully she didn't hit a jack on the turn or river or a back door straight.
Playbig2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2021, 11:59 PM   #24
hyperknit
veteran
 
hyperknit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,270
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
She wasn't a very tight tag. Very tight players don't make those kinds of moves. Hopefully she didn't hit a jack on the turn or river or a back door straight.


That was my read at the time but yeah ur right lol I guess she just played tight all night and then just spazzed out for no reason.

Maybe she put me on AK?
hyperknit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2021, 12:34 AM   #25
sauhund
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: osiasgriffin
Posts: 5,839
Re: 5/5 big spot with AA

all these labels like TAG, LAG, MAWG, OAWW, OMC are pretty confusing and don´t lead to the right decisions often. If you really have expensive history, sure, make exploits, but here you played a few hours with her which is probably about 60 hands.

folding in this spot is just so lol.
sauhund is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive