5/5 - AJs. Empty the clip or check back riv? - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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5/5 - AJs. Empty the clip or check back riv?

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06-06-2016 , 03:23 AM

DTLB

adept

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 904

Hero has $340, V has about $400

V raises $25 utg+1, hero calls OTB with A

Flop ($55): T

V checks, hero bets $30, V calls

Turn ($115): 4

V c/c $75

River ($265): 3

V checks

I'm new at the table so no reads on V. He's a MAWG with a shaved head and a goatee.

Best play?

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06-06-2016 , 04:04 AM

feel wrath

The Situation

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 29,863

Can Villain fold Jacks?

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06-06-2016 , 04:07 AM

DTLB

adept

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 904

Quote:

Originally Posted by feel wrath

Can Villain fold Jacks?

I'd never expect him to play JJ this way. And if he did, he'd never fold because his hand is so under repped.

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06-06-2016 , 04:18 AM

feel wrath

The Situation

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 29,863

so what range of hands does he have that he raises under the gun and then plays like this?

Which of them are you hoping to fold out?

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06-06-2016 , 06:42 AM

cassurai

adept

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 849

How many handed is this? That would give us an idea of villain's preflop opening range. You're usually up against 99 or 88 here, more likely 88.

Generally I wouldn't do this without reads. Many live villains are calling stations. Thinking villains would also know you're pretty polarized to sets or better in this spot and may hero call. You don't know what he is.

I would also have preferred to be a little deeper. An overbet will likely work (folds out the calling stations, and put thinking villains to a tough spot)

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06-06-2016 , 07:12 AM

Jamitontheriver

adept

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 1,137

Shove or check are the two options on river. I'm personally checking against an unknown. No reason to believe he won't station us without any reads. When he calls turn I think it is generally to call river. Although he doesn't have any monsters in his range we don't have many either.

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06-06-2016 , 08:18 AM

Gilmour

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 3,930

I am not a fan of firing a 2 or even 3 barrell bluff here without more spesific developed reads on our villain. Without that its really just more of a guessing game both when it comes to gauge the successrate of a riverbluff and to range villain properly.

There is villains who habitually slowplay KK/AA and top set this way, and there are villains who stations with almost any piece wich weights there range more against weaker 10x who stations twice hoping you bluff and/or shutting down on the river.

Against an unknown i think his range here is fairly wide open the way he played it, we are more capped than him in my opinion.

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06-06-2016 , 08:28 AM

suited fours

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,143

Does this game always play this short? Would expect most made hands to be willing to stack off.

I prefer a check behind on the turn. Villain range could be very strong here. We could then bet a river k or q or if villain gives off a tell that his ak missed.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

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06-06-2016 , 09:19 AM

Dream Crusher

banned

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 18,786

Why are we blindly firing with air vs villain we have no reads on? Check flop. Check turn. Check river.

In particular I really hate the turn bet.

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06-06-2016 , 09:34 AM

#10

Jamitontheriver

adept

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 1,137

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dream Crusher

Why are we blindly firing with air vs villain we have no reads on? Check flop. Check turn. Check river.

In particular I really hate the turn bet.

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

I think the turn bet is pretty mandatory once we bet flop. Flop bet alone won't even get AK/AQ to fold, need to double barrel to get those hands off. A good argument exists for checking flop I think, but once we fire it would be terrible to give up on the turn.

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06-06-2016 , 09:52 AM

#11

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,772

I agree that firing the turn is a must after betting flop, but against an unknown, I would have checked behind on flop.

Now that you are here, a shove on the river is good -- I just hope he can fold 99/88, and of course AK/AQ, which he should, and isn't slow-playing a set/straight or playing JJ/QQ horribly. I do not think he'll fold an overpair. Personally, I'd probably chicken out and check behind.

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06-06-2016 , 09:58 AM

#12

djevans

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5,051

villain absolutely destroyed you.

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06-06-2016 , 10:03 AM

#13

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dream Crusher

Why are we blindly firing with air vs villain we have no reads on?

and raise pre (he doesn't look like a nit).

as played, he's prob not calling with his OP to a river jam. Don't think he has a 6.

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06-06-2016 , 10:19 AM

#14

djevans

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5,051

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

and raise pre (he doesn't look like a nit).

as played, he's prob not calling with his OP to a river jam. Don't think he has a 6.

how do we ever have any 6's in our hand?

And was our goal to just bet blindly and get a good run out that we can bluff?

Ok in all seriousness - you don't want to make moves like this while your new to the table. You develop reads on the player before you try this. Unless you don't mind burning through a buy in or getting lucky randomly by getting an unknown to fold.

Is the guy a nit? Well this will probably work.

Does he call light? This bluff won't work

Since you don't know you are just gambling.

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06-06-2016 , 10:24 AM

#15

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by djevans

how do we ever have any 6's in our hand?

I think you are giving him too much credit. The board is 4 to a straight, and we can flat A6s, 67s, 56s, but he's probably not trying to range us anyway. And I'm doing this bc we already fired two bullets anyway. I'm not about to c/m when there's a good opportunity to bluff at that board.

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06-06-2016 , 01:37 PM

#16

SqredII

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,306

even without reads i think the river bluff easily works often enough to be profitable. I mean hat can he have? Most guys aren't just going to stack off here with 99 or 88. I know I would consider it a hero call if I had it, Granted, I wouldn't have check called with it twice though, lol.

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06-06-2016 , 01:54 PM

#17

Nice_Guy_Eddie

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,135

I absolutely hate the turn bet. The rainbow 4 does nothing to change the board. Villain will still think he's good on the turn with anything he called the flop with. Check back as played.

I would have checked the flop too. It's very suspicious that an EP raiser checks a flop like that. I'm checking all day and evaluating the turn card and his action. I'm betting every time he checks again. I'm calling most of the time he bets and evaluate the river.

In general, triple barreling unknowns <100BB deep is pure spew.

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