$330 ES

UTG raises $15. 30s white guy; new to table. Folds to SB who calls. Hero calls with A6 in BB

Flop ($40): A J 4
UTG bets $15, blinds call

Turn ($85): 2
Checks thru

River ($85): 6
Hero bets $75, UTG calls in frustration, SB check shoves for about $220 on top

SB is also new to table. 30s Asian, mild mannered, wearing long sleeve button shirt, looks like he just got off work. We had one hand earlier where he over limped in LP. I made it $30 with QQ and only he called. Board came A63r/A/8. I c/c $25 then $55 and c/f to $160 OTR.

Best play here?

wtf... Fold this **** pre or 3bet unless you get more callers. This is one of the absolute worst hands to defend with.

As played i'd probably lead river much smaller or check call. Leading that big gets called by nothing you beat.

This is a very gross spot. I don't think it's terrible to call. It looks like he has a set of 4's.

No one is going to give you a correct answer based on your info.

snap

Yeah fold pre for sure, especially this shallow, and I fold river as well. All we have is a bluff catcher and I don't think many people are check/shoving the river over two opponents as a bluff. Unless you have a read that he can massively overvalue a hand like A2/A4/46cc, this is a fold.

Once we get here, bet/fold the river is fine to get calls from AK/AQ/AT/A4/A2. I would probably size a bit smaller as well but if you think $75 will look bluffy then I'm okay with the sizing.

As played, I call, but I don't like it. We are ahead of a lot of SB's range, and he could be bluffing considering how the hand was played.

As stated, fold pre. If I called this pre, I'd lead flop or check/raise that tiny bet from UTG.

I'm surprised by all everyone saying fold pre. It's $10 to call with $35 in the middle. We're closing the action with a suited Ace. We'll have good relative position after the flop (i.e. It'll check to UTG and if he cbets, we get to see what SB does before we react).

It feels like a standard call to me, but I'm open to being told why it's not...

How do you plan on winning the hand? You have 66BB. You have no reads on a UTG open. Sure, your direct odds are great. What about RIO?

It's usually not a good idea to play hands OOP when the plan is to flop well with a marginal hand and pray you aren't dominated. You can try to bussamove, but you have 66bb. So your dancefloor is a flattened cardboard box. No room for windmills and the worm. Also, you gotta be able to serve him. If you can't dance, def don't step on the dancefloor with crappy shoes.

I'm OK with the call pre. Obviously we're not looking for TP and we're folding the flop the vast majority of the time. We're looking to spike 2P, trips or a combo draw that gives us real equity. We might also be able to bluff once in a while. We're just under 7% to flop big, so we need to average $135 when we do that, not counting ordinary flush draws or bluffs. I don't think this is the key to unlimited wealth, but I think with good postflop play it can be profitable.

I think it is better if we have a better read on V's though. Deeper stacks also help.

Folding pre is obviously also fine.

Quick note: Even though I have a different opinion, the poetry of SunChips' post really makes me wish I didn't. Awesome.

I really don't think LLSNL V's x/shove bluff the river for nearly 300 (75 + 220) even nearly 33% of the time. I'm laying this down after pausing a few seconds for show.

@Titan We know you're doing it fast. But what are you doing?

The 66 bb talk from those in the "fold pre" camp is a little inapplicable, given that the PFR made it only $15. Really we should be thinking that OP is getting 3.5:1 direct and 33:1 implied to call with a suited ace in a multiway pot.


That's about the same as if we were sitting on $330 in the SB in a 1/2 game and UTG made it $10, with two calls in the HJ and BTN. Doubt we would be, or should be, giving the same "fold pre" advice in that spot.

Call pre is fine if deeper but fold with these stack sizes.

River is easy call

sorry, calling

against this villain with 60~BB ES?

"Board came A63r/A/8. I c/c $25 then $55 and c/f to $160 OTR."

For those of you saying this is a call/easy call, do you think villain is bluffing here or that he is value raising worse? I find it hard to believe he is doing either.

this guy is aware that he is some decent fold equity against OP given the history

he is playing on 60BBs and chooses to check turn instead of setting it up for a shove OTR on a blank turn

he sees weakness in the UTG flatting OP's raise and realises there is dead money in the pot

this might be one of the easiest calls i've ever made

The previous hand history is not even remotely the same situation as this one, and it is very likely villain just had an ace in that hand and was value betting.

And this is my point exactly? What hand checks the turn multiway with a 60BB ES

If you think he plays his value hands bet/bet/bet how are you not snapping here

maybe he has 66 we better fold

In h1 he was heads up and in position, this hand he is OOP 3 ways. He could easily have been going for a check/jam on the turn with 44/AJ expecting the PFR to keep barreling on the blank turn, but once it checked through and the draw also missed on the river, he decided to go for a check/jam again to get max value hoping that one of the players would either bluff clubs or value bet worse.

I just can't imagine him choosing this spot to bluff missed clubs after we bet pot and the PFR flats.

tbh misread villain as PFR

that being said i still call here

don't think AJ/44 are check/calling that tiny flop bet multiway oop and not building up the pot

my point about him realising he can get OP to fold (especially since OP's line does look like a steal), as well as observing the presence of dead money in the pot still stands

Is 35 in this dudes range pre lol?

Definitely curious to hear the result of this one. I will be pretty surprised if this was a bluff or if he was jamming worse for value here.

I totally thought about the 35 while I was tanking and i do believe it's in his range pre. The average joe will call $10 more out of the SB with those hands. Only nits like me fold them lol.

No results to give because I folded and he never showed.

I even asked him afterwards if he had the 3c5c but he smiled shyly and shook his head. Then again he did that when I asked hm if he had 44. 66 would be super gross because that would mean I was ahead all the way until he binked a one outer.

Maybe I should have called so that I wouldn't have to keep thinking about this hand lol.

Even if he was going for a c/r on the turn with 44, AJ he would lead the river.

He reps nothing.

This is just a bluff that doesn't much sense and with the odds we are getting I am snap calling.