Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? 5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff?

01-08-2018 , 05:47 AM
Playing 5 handed as three players are away from the table...

Hero is in for 1000 (though table has seen me buy in 700 as came from must move several hours ago) and has a stack of 680. I have been loose aggressive preflop but fit/fold post. Stack had dwindled down to 160 but doubled up twice recently. I had not made any big bluffs to this point. With regard to villain in this hand, I had folded to aggression to him twice prior to this hand over several hours (both 3 bet pots pre - 1st one I folded pre and the other to a flop bet).

Villain is a young maybe Persian kid who has been playing fairly snug, picking his spots and has grown his stack to ~1100 over a couple hours of play.

Preflop
Villain utg, limps
I make it 25 from utg+2/cutoff with ackd
Button calls
Utg makes it 135 after it folds around to him and I call. Button folds.

Flop comes
9d8s6d
Check check

Turn 4d
Villain bets 120 and I call after thinking about 10 seconds

River 5c
Villain bets 120 again
Hero all in for 435

Given limp reraise preflop, it seems villains range is capped at overpairs. Is this lighting money on fire? Comments on all streets appreciated.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 06:13 AM
Your bluff didn't make sense because if u have exactly flush draw, why don't u bet the flop trying to build it? Your bluff only tried to fold out another AKo with A of diamond...I don't see its a good spot to bluff,

whenever someone bet the same amount 2 streets/way less than half pot. Don't try to bluff him, fishy reg
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 07:33 AM
4!/GII pre.

You aren't deep enough to bluff, although V's line is super fishy and he reps very little.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 09:18 AM
Snug player l/rr from UTG? I'm tossing AKo at a significant fraction of the speed of light, even if it is 5-way, even if I have (gasp) folded to 2 other 3b in the past several hours. If I have reason to believe he's doing this light, then I could see planning to get it in pre, but against this V I think we're way behind his range if it all goes in. Even if he's as wide as QQ+, AK we have only 39% equity and I'm not really interested in putting enough in the pot that I then have to put the rest in.

AP, we're not getting the right odds to draw to the one card 2NF. We're not making any more if it hits and we're good, but we can lose more if it hits and he has the boss. Yeah, his line is fishy but the only thing we beat is some 3b bluffs, and we're actually behind even some of them. We have some additional equity because maybe we're chopping, but I'm still folding here.

I don't think putting 435 in so that V has to call 315 to win an 850 pot is moving money in the preferred direction.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 01:27 PM
Unless V can put some hands that contain a 7 in your range, he is gonna look you up way more often than not so this play is unprofitable IMO.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush
4!/GII pre.
Or fold, calling is the nutlow
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 01:43 PM
You don't rep much, and not enough left on the river to fold much. I think the only hand V folds here is AK. However, if you'd seen V make big laydowns, this is the only way you are going to win the hand. Might have been better to bet the flop or raise the turn, though. Too short now.

I agree to 4bet pre or fold to the 3bet. I fold AK to a snug player's limp/3bet. It's almost always AA or KK.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 01:50 PM
Ya I like it. Checking flop with a flush draw is believable because villain has big pairs in his range. Turn call is good. We block the flush otr so it makes sense. Nice hand.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 02:01 PM
I like flatting river more than I like shoving. V likely won’t fold better or call worse so what’s the point? I can get behind the $120 hero call more than a shove. Neither reps a 7 or really even a set so it’s either over pairs or AK is good.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitcherroo
I like flatting river more than I like shoving. V likely won’t fold better or call worse so what’s the point? I can get behind the $120 hero call more than a shove. Neither reps a 7 or really even a set so it’s either over pairs or AK is good.
Flush came in on the turn, so V might fold better, but with the odd he's getting, I doubt it. I would have just raised the turn if I wanted to rep the flush, prepared to continue on river.

OP, in future please put pot sizes on each street.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitcherroo
I like flatting river more than I like shoving. V likely won’t fold better or call worse so what’s the point? I can get behind the $120 hero call more than a shove. Neither reps a 7 or really even a set so it’s either over pairs or AK is good.
They say never say never but AK is never good here. When I say never I mean never ever. Fold pre. Id call with aks and 4 bet or fold ako.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
Flush came in on the turn, so V might fold better, but with the odd he's getting, I doubt it. I would have just raised the turn if I wanted to rep the flush, prepared to continue on river.

OP, in future please put pot sizes on each street.
If I had H’s hand as V I’d call the AI on the river but I do dumb things from time to time.

Agree with you on the turn.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 02:57 PM
If I were V and had AK, I'd fold, but I would have played it differently. Not sure I could fold AA or KK, though. It's an extra $315 into ~$775 and played so oddly by H. I'd have to look him up.

If H is lucky, the $120 on the river was V's b/f move
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 03:10 PM
I feel like there is more history behind UTG's massive limp-raise than we're being told. Maybe he saw us raising with some very speculative hands?

Preflop: The call of a limp/raise to 20% of effective stacks by a snug player UTG seems beyond bad. One has to assume he is not doing this to win a 7bb pot but is trying to create an SPR which makes it easier for him to take the LAG's stack. Notwithstanding our blockers, it seems like AA/KK. It's hard to think of a profitable flat-calling range for hero. Even with AA, we should be 5-betting trying to get stacks in vs KK. AKo seems like possibly the worst hand we should be calling with.

As played, checking back the flop to avoid being check-raised AA/KK seems the right play but I'm not sure what card we're wanting to come.

On the turn, calling 120 into 270 with our weak draw seems like a really bad play. If villain has AA then it's AA, AA or AA.

On the river, his bet of only 120 into 510 seems odd. Why wouldn't he check with his overpair. Is he trying to get a call from QQ/JJ? All of a sudden it seems like he might have had badly played AKo all along. I don't think a shove for an extra 315 is going to get villain off AA or KK. But maybe we could shove and get him off a chop!? We would be representing a stupidly played straight or 2-pair. I think I want to go for it but I'm honestly not sure if we get this through more than 40% of the time.

Last edited by Nogyong; 01-08-2018 at 03:18 PM.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 03:13 PM
In order for the bluff to be believable, I would say you should have raised the turn... Maybe up to $260 - $280.. leaving you $295 ish behind for a river jam. The turn brings 3 to a flush and there is 3 to a straight on the flop. If I was planning on a bluff, i think the turn would have been the street to do it... With Vs flop bet, lower that his pre flop bet, I am taking that as a sign of caution. Then a turn bet, the same as the flop bet, I am really thinking a sign of caution... I think a turn bluff gets through..
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 07:54 PM
The more I think about it, the more I hate flatting pre against said V.

Leaning towards a 60/40 fold/4!
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogyong
I feel like there is more history behind UTG's massive limp-raise than we're being told. Maybe he saw us raising with some very speculative hands?

Preflop: The call of a limp/raise to 20% of effective stacks by a snug player UTG seems beyond bad. One has to assume he is not doing this to win a 7bb pot but is trying to create an SPR which makes it easier for him to take the LAG's stack. Notwithstanding our blockers, it seems like AA/KK. It's hard to think of a profitable flat-calling range for hero. Even with AA, we should be 5-betting trying to get stacks in vs KK. AKo seems like possibly the worst hand we should be calling with.

As played, checking back the flop to avoid being check-raised AA/KK seems the right play but I'm not sure what card we're wanting to come.

On the turn, calling 120 into 270 with our weak draw seems like a really bad play. If villain has AA then it's AA, AA or AA.

On the river, his bet of only 120 into 510 seems odd. Why wouldn't he check with his overpair. Is he trying to get a call from QQ/JJ? All of a sudden it seems like he might have had badly played AKo all along. I don't think a shove for an extra 315 is going to get villain off AA or KK. But maybe we could shove and get him off a chop!? We would be representing a stupidly played straight or 2-pair. I think I want to go for it but I'm honestly not sure if we get this through more than 40% of the time.
So you think he limp re raised ak then checked flop? Bet turn and river? If Ak checks the flop hes just insanely bad.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-08-2018 , 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogyong
I feel like there is more history behind UTG's massive limp-raise than we're being told. Maybe he saw us raising with some very speculative hands?

Preflop: The call of a limp/raise to 20% of effective stacks by a snug player UTG seems beyond bad. One has to assume he is not doing this to win a 7bb pot but is trying to create an SPR which makes it easier for him to take the LAG's stack. Notwithstanding our blockers, it seems like AA/KK. It's hard to think of a profitable flat-calling range for hero. Even with AA, we should be 5-betting trying to get stacks in vs KK. AKo seems like possibly the worst hand we should be calling with.

As played, checking back the flop to avoid being check-raised AA/KK seems the right play but I'm not sure what card we're wanting to come.

On the turn, calling 120 into 270 with our weak draw seems like a really bad play. If villain has AA then it's AA, AA or AA.

On the river, his bet of only 120 into 510 seems odd. Why wouldn't he check with his overpair. Is he trying to get a call from QQ/JJ? All of a sudden it seems like he might have had badly played AKo all along. I don't think a shove for an extra 315 is going to get villain off AA or KK. But maybe we could shove and get him off a chop!? We would be representing a stupidly played straight or 2-pair. I think I want to go for it but I'm honestly not sure if we get this through more than 40% of the time.


You are right in that I had been raising pre with some speculative hands since we were mostly playing short handed...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-10-2018 , 04:28 AM
Results: villain ended up tanking for three minutes and folded. I got really fried by you all but I think you guys may be right and I got lucky that he probably had ace king too. Thank you for all your input!
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-10-2018 , 05:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoutThatLife
So you think he limp re raised ak then checked flop? Bet turn and river? If Ak checks the flop hes just insanely bad.
Apparently so.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote
01-10-2018 , 10:07 AM
I prefer to jam the turn, but I think raising river is okay as a bluff.
5/5 500 max buy in...  is this the time to bluff? Quote

      
m