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5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River 5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River

06-18-2018 , 05:04 PM
Hero has been playing at the table for 5 hours at this point and has around $1300, about average for the table. Pretty sure Hero is viewed as solid who is on the tighter side but is fairly aggressive (has tabled some Q9s, Q8s, J8s type of hands as both misses and hands that got there).

V1 is a young (early-mid 20's) asian male who seems to be an average reg. Bought in for the minimum ($500). and plays fairly tight pre, so definitely not one of the crazy LAG types. Right now he's playing around $800.

V2 is a middle aged white guy who is a decent reg.

One limp in EP. Folds to Hero in HJ, who decides to open 64 for $30. V2 in BU calls and V1 in SB calls as well. Limper folds.

Decided pre that I like to sometimes play this hand for image purposes / occasionally have some low suited cards in my range. I would probably fold 50% of the time and raise the other time. Additionally, BB was tight so more incentive to raise here.

Flop ($100): QT6

V2 checks.
Hero checks
V1 bets $40.
V2 raises to $160.
Hero calls.
V1 folds.

Definitely some interesting flop action here. All things considered, a pretty good flop for our hand, and an average / slightly favorable flop for our entire range. I decide to check to put this particular hand into our check call range, but the check raise complicates things. Still, lots of equity and we block 66 so I think we're forced to call.

Turn ($360). QT6T

V2 thinks for 15 seconds and checks
Hero thinks and checks.

Barring a 6 or 4 or club, one of the best cards in the deck. This further reduces his QT and TT combinations. I'm not sure if Villain picks up on this fact, and is therefore giving up on a lot of bluffs, but I see little reason to bet here. I can see merit in betting something like $120-$160 to deny equity, but I feel like my hand is in a great position to bluff catch.

River ($360). QT6T2

V2 bets $225.
Hero ?

So we get a brick river. I thought about it for a minute or two before making decision.

What do you guys think? Honestly I'm not sure if river is the most interesting spot in this hand. What do we think about betting turn small? What about calling the x/r on the flop? Does this hand play different if villain barrels turn for 2/3 - 3/4 pot, and then fire river?
5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River Quote
06-18-2018 , 05:12 PM
Flop action doesn't make sense. You and V2 have position on V1 who is in sb. How are you guys checking and then he is betting?
5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River Quote
06-18-2018 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
I decide to check to put this particular hand into our check call range
That's not reasoning, that's just restating what you did. You should bet this because you can make worse hands fold with aggression (eg tens). Like Mr S said though, you should be in position anyway.
5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River Quote
06-19-2018 , 12:19 AM
+1

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5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River Quote
06-19-2018 , 12:30 AM
So in most cases you are dealing on the flop with range KQ=12 combos,AQ= 12 combos, AJ =16 combos and reduce it to half for example=8 combos,KJs=4 combos( dont think that reg can cold call kjo),3 combos TT,1 combo 66, also he can have fd also. Look at the range and make it 700$-1300$ on the flop and take money for free most of the times
If he calls , dont be scary, ur hand is good enough
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5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River Quote
06-19-2018 , 06:09 AM
FOLD PRE

Ap flop is pretty std. you should check otf with a lot of your range since it hits your opponent’s ranges harder, and your hand isnt strong enough to be going for multiple streets of value/cant take much heat
5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River Quote
06-19-2018 , 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
FOLD PRE

Ap flop is pretty std. you should check otf with a lot of your range since it hits your opponent’s ranges harder, and your hand isnt strong enough to be going for multiple streets of value/cant take much heat
Eh? I for starters don't agree that this flop hits our opponents' ranges harder than ours. Secondly, even if this were true and we should be checking a lot, that doesn't mean we should check this hand. Thirdly, it's not true that this hand can't take heat, it has huge equity against basically anything Vs could possibly have. About the only thing you want to avoid is being in a 3-way pot where both your made hand and your draw are no good.

We should be betting this hand because:

- it has piles of equity so there's very little downside
- we can make better hands fold immediately (eg 77)
- there's the option of a double-barrel bluff to get rid of things like tens
- alternatively, if we don't want to double-barrel, if our opponents have a good hand, we much prefer that money goes in OTF when all our draws are live, instead of on a blank turn. (I'm going to assume we're actually in position so that we have control over that)
5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River Quote
06-19-2018 , 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Eh? I for starters don't agree that this flop hits our opponents' ranges harder than ours. Secondly, even if this were true and we should be checking a lot, that doesn't mean we should check this hand. Thirdly, it's not true that this hand can't take heat, it has huge equity against basically anything Vs could possibly have. About the only thing you want to avoid is being in a 3-way pot where both your made hand and your draw are no good.

We should be betting this hand because:

- it has piles of equity so there's very little downside
- we can make better hands fold immediately (eg 77)
- there's the option of a double-barrel bluff to get rid of things like tens
- alternatively, if we don't want to double-barrel, if our opponents have a good hand, we much prefer that money goes in OTF when all our draws are live, instead of on a blank turn. (I'm going to assume we're actually in position so that we have control over that)
This. I would have bet the turn as well when checked. When is the last time you saw a double check/raise in your game? I will answer for me....NEVER. So if V has a naked draw, we are ahead so we need to bet. We can also get better hands to fold (like KQ/QJ/Q9) which we want.

AP, I think you have to fold as you have close to zero idea where V is given the action (another reason to bet the turn....it generally avoids us getting bluffed off the best hand on the river).
5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River Quote
06-19-2018 , 12:55 PM
Hey guys. Sorry about the flop action. V1 and V2 should be flipped... So the main villain in the hand is V1 (the one who check raises).

Interesting flop discussion. I've always tended to play this like Minatorr is advocating: putting medium strength hands that can call down at least two streets comfortably into check call range.

As for folding river: I would disagree about not knowing where I am. I think Villain checking the turn is a great indicator that he is giving up on bluffs, since the T is a horrid card for his range. He now only has 1 combo of 66, 1 combo of TT, and 2 combos of QTs. Therefore, if he even bluffs 3 combos on the river this is a profitable call.
5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River Quote
06-19-2018 , 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltis
Hey guys. Sorry about the flop action. V1 and V2 should be flipped... So the main villain in the hand is V1 (the one who check raises).
This still doesn't make sense. Are you in position or not? Maybe repost the flop action.
5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River Quote
06-19-2018 , 10:14 PM
OK, I think I get it. V1 limps then flats, V2 flats OTB. Then OTF, check check, V2 bets, V1 x/r, you flat, V2 folds.

River looks like a call. For his value range I'd probably give him all 6 combos of QT and 1 of 66, I don't think he's going to have TT or AQ for the limp-call pre. With AQ in particular it would probably be inconsistent in terms of play style to limp-call it pre but x/r it OTF. So all you need is three bluff combos. There are 6 combos of just the NFD (A9cc and below) so even if we discount them by 50% (because he might have bet turn) that's going to be good enough, that's before we get into KJcc, 98cc, J9cc, other KJs, etc etc.
5/5 3 Way Flop leads to Interesting River Quote

      
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