$5/$5 NL Game.

V1: ($350 eff.): Passive calling station. Will make small probing bets with minimal holdings into weakness.

V2: ($500 eff.) (Has appeared in a few of my other posts) Super spew, but the way he plays depends on if he is loser or winner (will overplay hands and station off a lot more when stuck). Right now he is slight winner. Believes I always have "big" cards.


Hero raises $30 on Btn with 109

V1 and V2 call.

Pot = $100
Flop KJ4

V1 checks, V2 checks, Hero checks.

Pot = $100
Turn 4

V1 bets $25, V2 calls, Hero calls

Pot = $175
River A

V1 checks, V2 bets $65, Hero ???

Advice on prior streets is welcome, Thanks in advance for replies!

As played, call and hope V1 comes along. If you raise, hard to imagine getting called without QsXs or a boat.

I would have cbet flop, though it's close. You only have a gutter and BDFD, which leans more towards a bluff, $60. Then check behind on the turn, and half pot the river for value. If you get raised on the flop, let it go.

Though V1 may be a station, he probably won't call with air, as V2 is behind him. The bet makes him play more straightforward.

I'm raising the turn if I think V1 can fold Kx, otherwise I'd flat.

I think river is a raise for value

Good open, good check back OTF. That flop smacks their calling ranges, so no c-bet is def the way to go.

I would raise turn with a lot of equity and a silly sized probe. Neither V can have anything better than TPWK here, so you take down the pot a lot, and have huge FE OTR when they tank call. I'd make it a hundo more to go.

AP, river is a raise/fold, imo. Your hand is pretty face up, but you want more value than this, and since you "always have big cards" and checked flop, V2 will sometimes call your raise with his 2pair hands and pretty much always with straights. I don't think he'd turn SDV into a bluff here, with the flush out and your line being so consistent therewith.

Never happening sadly.

And FWIW, the subject is incorrect. It was actually the 3rd nut flush. For some reason I thought the K and J were spades.

I think this is a very close call between a raise/fold and a simple call. If V2 was a slight short term loser and more spewy than OP suggested, I'd lean toward raise/fold, because I think you have a reasonably good chance of getting paid off by a straight, weaker flush or trips. Under current conditions, though, and because I'd tend to go with a lower variance play with similar EVs, I'd call here.

Very interesting situation.

You have a very weak bet on the turn by someone who "will make small probing bets with minimal holdings into weakness", followed by a weak call and the action is now on you. In this spot, against two people who have basically announced they don't really like their holdings that much, NOT RAISING THE TURN IS JUST CRIMINAL.

Honestly, I think raising the turn to $150 in this situation with any two cards is very likely a profitable play. The fact that we have a nice draw is just frosting on this very profitable turn bluff raising cake.

+1

+1

fwiw I think villain can find a river call with lots of hands that we beat: SC that made a lower flush, 4x, QT for example. while it's clearly logical to fold many of these hands, players in this game generally call too much. even though villain is not stuck (therefore perhaps less stationy), he certainly will station here sometimes with worse.

so I think raise/fold river to $225 or so. if we really think villain is only continuing with boats/nut flush, then it's a good bluff spot, too.

CBet flop, as played raise turn, as played raise river

I kinda like a Cbet here, though as someone said, "its close". If it were a J of spades on the flop I think I would most definitely cbet probably over 90% of the time. What do you guys think?

I call river and as long as V1 doesn't ship or anything crazy I think I feel pretty good about my hand holding at showdown.

i think either villian having a boat is unlikely. i would expect a 3bet pre flop with AA KK and sometime JJ. that just leaves A4s as the only playable hand left.

plenty of hands that would flat hero's raise preflop have 2p (not counting the pair of 4 on the board) as well as broadway.

i raise to $175 and probably call it off if raised, especially since v2 is described as "super spew"

the only realistic flushes we're beat by are J8s/J9s/QJs/Q9s/Q8s

Nice check OTF. raise turn, r/f river. w 1 v who will prob bet for 25 and a call, as said, if you raise w ATC it will be profitable, as long as you got your reads right, and the flat is not a monster. Also the smallish bet from V2 makes me think he has a value hand that wants to go to cheap showdown. Lets bump it up.

What are their positions? If they are limpers, don't raise preflop if you don't intend to cbet this flop. Either way, cbet this flop.

River is a call/fold to a V1 shove imo.

Also, you have the 3rd best flush, not the 2nd.

What positions are Villains in this hand? Did the limp? What's the deal?

I don't agree with most of what is said here.

Reasons to cbet:
-Flop hits our raising range.
-Flop is quite dry/good texture for cbet.
-We currently have very little SDV.
-Villain's believe that we always have "big cards"
-We can barrel a good # of turns w/ equity.
-We raised pre and were checked to, continue story.
-Villains calling from the blinds? Probably have a BUNCH of low suited crap/Ax type hands/small PP's that will fold to a cbet.

Reasons not to cbet:
Stack sizes.
Sticky villains (although 1 may not by sticky ATM due to being a slight winner).

When we weigh the options here, I think it's close. In this spot I would tend to lean towards a cbet. I think both checking back and betting 1/2 pot are fine. If the stacks were deeper I would definitely like to see a cbet here.

You advocate checking the flop and then raising the turn...? What exactly are we repping here? Seem like anyone with half a brain that was watching would know we have air here. Are we checking back the flop with any strong hands? I would argue that this line turns our hand more face up then calling the turn and the raising river. Not to mention the two lines differ in goals, the first being to get folds, and the second to get calls (easy fold to 3bet OTR). And it seems easier to get random bad calls than folds in these types of games right? I also really don't think that we are going to get many folds from Kx here with the J kicker playing on the board. It seems that most of the hands that would be folding to a raise OTT would have folded to a cbet OTF (with less risk). Sure we might get a few more $ from his weak bet OTT, but i'll concern myself with getting value from hands more when I'm actually betting for value.

I agree that as played the hand is a raise/fold OTR. Although I just realized that the sizing may make that a bit tricky. Yeah... there isn't any room for raise fold the river, just ship it.

I'm quite surprised that everyone suggests raising the turn getting 6:1 with a draw when a raise reps nothing. I mean we checked the flop for a reason right? Both players can have Kx still here given the line and are described as "sticky".

I think I am just calling this. In this hand, medium flush is a medium strength hand. Too many boats and higher flushes out there.

Against mediocre players who don't like their hands we don't need a credible story backing up our raise. This is definitely an empty range bluff raise but it's the right spot for it imo.

cbet this flop with our GS and BDFD, then barrel turn and bomb river

raise/fold the river as played

the board in and of itself with any two random cards is not great to cbet on, but with our back door draws it is A+ imo