5/5 2nd full house vs pro. - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Nothing spectacular here, just want to see if I'm correct in flatting this river...

First time I've seen this villain, but the whole table knew who this guy was before he even entered the game & wanted him to sit at our table. (I really don't follow the poker scene, but some googling afterwards revealed he's a winning tourney player). About an orbit or two through so no showdown reads.

$1k eff

Hero BTN with 88

V in SB.

1 limp, CO raises to $20, we flat along with V and limper.

Flop $79

JJ5 2tone

checks through

Turn

5x

V fires $40,f,f, Hero flats

River $158

8x

V $120, Hero flats... Anyone try to target a 5 with a raise/fold? Could we look we're bluffing?

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07-02-2017 , 03:49 PM

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,516

Not raising, since V is pretty uncapped and we hate life if he re-raises, especially as if we fold we will sometimes be folding the best hand, but not often enough to call, imo.

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07-02-2017 , 04:10 PM

Jarretman

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,937

I like betting the flop.

I think I'm folding the turn. He's leading into 3 other people on one of the least dynamic boards possible. Not the greatest spot for him to bluff.

As played I just call river.

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07-02-2017 , 04:12 PM

Bankstore

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 7

Never folding given information about villain. Never raising without more information about villain. Well played.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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07-03-2017 , 04:18 AM

matzah_ball

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,726

Bet flop

Call call is good as played

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07-03-2017 , 05:02 AM

acescracked84

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,615

Fold turn. Fold river.

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07-03-2017 , 06:34 AM

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,855

I'm not liking myself much here, but I'd have to call it down. There's just enough of a chance he could bet the turn with an ace that we can't fold. We have a way better hand on the river than he's going to expect. Keep in mind that he thinks he's playing in the kiddie pool. His bluff range is going to be wider than normal.

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07-03-2017 , 02:26 PM

soxfan43

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 219

Quote:

Originally Posted by acescracked84

Fold river.

lol

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07-03-2017 , 02:39 PM

JB Clark

banned

Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 673

pre is a complete disaster...use your button

60 to go

bet flop ap

snap fold river AP

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07-03-2017 , 02:46 PM

#10

QuantumSurfer

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,987

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB Clark

pre is a complete disaster...use your button

60 to go

bet flop ap

snap fold river AP

The button is a $40 chip... so we did.

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07-03-2017 , 02:52 PM

#11

JB Clark

banned

Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 673

you need to isolate the CO with your monster hand bruh, raise to 60-70 pre or lose your sklansky bux

88 is a big hand here, its still a big hand OTF, river is a turbo fold and kick yourself for not isoing pf

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07-03-2017 , 03:01 PM

#12

rus5267

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 246

Villain has a 5 or a J. You beat one but not the other. Calling is fine. A raise only gets called by a J which isn't folding.

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07-03-2017 , 03:20 PM

#13

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Just about never 3b this pre
Bet flop
AP Fold Turn, Fold river facing 120 and no don't raise.

Quote

07-03-2017 , 03:20 PM

#14

jc315

adept

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 1,049

I would definitely bet flop some percentage of the time... our hand is good a ton here, and we have a lot of equity to protect vs so many people. dont need to bet huge but i would bet mostly to protect my equity.

turn is close but have to call after check flop. river close as well but also lean toward call until we have better reads on particular player. save thinner value bets for players we have good reads on IMO.

pre is like super standard in a LLSNL but you already know that OP

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07-03-2017 , 03:25 PM

#15

hitchens97

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,452

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB Clark

pre is a complete disaster...use your button

60 to go

bet flop ap

snap fold river AP

i think hero played it fine, but pre is most interesting part to me. Id mostly flat. What's our raising range vs our calling range here?

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07-03-2017 , 03:58 PM

#16

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,516

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB Clark

Not sure if serious.

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07-03-2017 , 04:07 PM

#17

JB Clark

banned

Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 673

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitchens97

i think hero played it fine, but pre is most interesting part to me. Id mostly flat. What's our raising range vs our calling range here?

ummm.. you can easily find or figure out what is unexploitable to 3b with here, but dont expect to be spoonfed

88 is top 12%, CO button raise freq can be as low as 16% for 3b to be massively +ev

thats a huge edge

i shouldnt say anyrhing lest ppl get too good and realize all their sklansky bux

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07-03-2017 , 04:20 PM

#18

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,516

The goal of LLSNL is not to be unexploitable. It is to maximize EV by exploiting Vs who are even more exploitable than our exploitative strategy. Unexploitability (GTO) is a defensive strategy, not an EV maxing strategy.

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07-03-2017 , 10:56 PM

#19

Jarretman

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,937

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanaplan

Just about never 3b this pre
Bet flop
AP Fold Turn, Fold river facing 120 and no don't raise.

Agree with everything except fold river. Folding river is kinda ridiculous

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07-10-2017 , 12:45 PM

#20

hitchens97

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,452

results?

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07-10-2017 , 12:52 PM

#21

randomcards

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 794

calling river, villain folds a 5 some to a raise so I don't think it's profitable.

I don't mind the turn call as V can have 5 and bluffs often.

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07-10-2017 , 01:06 PM

#22

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,332

not raising with his sizing of 120 into 158 on JJ558.

There are some tournament players that aren't good cash players, which is why he was probably welcomed at the table because they tend to over play their hands. Raising likely won't fold out better or get worse to call on that board.

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07-10-2017 , 01:32 PM

#23

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,770

Hand is played fine, although I might have bet flop.

I see zero reason to raise river.

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07-10-2017 , 02:06 PM

#24

ImAllInNow

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,856

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarretman

I think I'm folding the turn. He's leading into 3 other people on one of the least dynamic boards possible. Not the greatest spot for him to bluff.

Folding turn seems terrible given the flop was checked through. If there was a bet and 3 calls on the flop, then we can definitely fold to a turn bet. V can be value betting ace high on the turn here very easily.