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Old 11-21-2018, 08:01 AM   #1
NoBluf
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Question 5/5/10 Shove pre

Playing 5/5/10 (10 is a not live staddle) 6 handend, I am the effective stack with 350$.

V1: have seen him open hands like 78o from utg. Has been in quite a lot of hands since I joined the table 2 hours ago.

Hero: 20 y/o Guy, First time playing in this particular casino. Havnt shown down any hands in the past two hours. 3 bet twice pre. By far the least active person om the table. Pretty much folded down from 700$ to 350$

OTTH: V1 opens utg to 40. Folds to me on the button with QJo.
Me??


Can I shove this given my relatively tight image?

Last edited by NoBluf; 11-21-2018 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 11-21-2018, 08:54 AM   #2
MikeStarr
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

No
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:40 AM   #3
winadil
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

So you want to donk off your stack with QJo?
Just sounds like you are frustrated and card dead.
If this guy is really that loose then I am guessing he is very aggressive?
Just fold this trash and move on to the next hand,top up and wait for some better hands to play aginst this guy.

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Old 11-21-2018, 09:59 AM   #4
DumbosTrunk
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

Just because you saw him open garbage once utg does not mean he's a maniac. If you said he's opening every hand, I'd be more OK with a jam. But you didn't say he's a maniac, you just said he's been involved in a lot of hands, whatever that means (it would be more useful to know how often he open raises).

Also, you have to worry about the blinds waking up with a hand. All in all, I'd let this one go and be pretty happy about it.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:14 AM   #5
samo
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

No.

If you are unable to top off, change to a lower stakes table where you can play a 100 bbs+ stack.

GL!
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Old 11-21-2018, 12:00 PM   #6
Man of Means
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

I don't see anything wrong with trying out 5/10 and playing a short stack. Your overall strategy will deviate quite a bit from how you'd play with a 100bb stack. One way to do it is to play super-tight and wait for hands that will make an overpair or top pair good kicker - raise preflop and get ready to get your stack in before the river.

Another tactic to think about is getting a short stack in preflop with value and semi-bluffing hands, which is what this question is about. Your risk:reward ratio is not good here - sometimes you win $60 and when you get called you are often smoked for $350. QJs is probably too weak to play here, even as a call, but if you had QJs against a raise and a few calls, you could possibly justify jamming as a squeeze because of the overlay from dead money.
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Old 11-21-2018, 02:45 PM   #7
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

Yes
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:16 PM   #8
NoBluf
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

Since I wasnt sure about the spot I decided to anylize it and put in some assumptions here is the outcome.
UTG opens from 78o (since I have seem him open this from UTG) so around 35.75% of hands (any pair, any broadway 45s+, 78o+ A2s+, 97s+, Q9s, K9s, J9o, Q9o, K9o, A2o+)
Assuming other players call 9s+ and AQo+ so 5.13% of hands
Need to get through SB, BB, and Straddle who have a random hand so I will be called here 15.39% of the time.
I think calling range from the opener is the same (He might call AJs or 88s but first to act might fold 99s and AQo if he is tight so lets just keep it the same to make it easier)
Since the original openers range is clear we can say he calls 14.3% of the time
So in total I get called 19.69% of the time
Also assuming if 1 person calls everyone else folds
If everyone folds I win 5+5+10+40 = 60 and my stack is 400$ after the hand
When I get called by SB-BB-Straddle pot is 340+340+40+(20/3x2=)13=733
If I get called by original raiser port is 20+340+340=700 (14.3/33.9=)42.1% of the time we get called the pot is this
And 57.9% when we get called pot is 733
So average pot when called = (0.579x733+0.421x700=)719$
QJo has 29.69% against a range of 9s+ and AQo+
So when called I have an EV of (29.69x719=)213.47$
(0.1969%x213.47+0.8031x400=)363.27$
So if what I said Is true I make an EV of (363.27-340=)23.27$
In realilty two people behind call some of the time and my equity will be 18% vs the players (if secone player calls AKo and QQ+ ) and the EV in this situation is 185.4$ and not 213.47$, but I don’t think this will happen over 1% of the time so I just exclude this
Are the assumptions made here correct or think villians will also call AJs a big % of the time for example?
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:57 PM   #9
twitcherroo
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

You can shove almost anything profitably once. I wouldn’t make a habit out of it here but first time probably gets through.
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Old 11-21-2018, 10:02 PM   #10
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

AJo would probably be the bottom of my no pair shoving range. QJ is way too weak
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Old 11-22-2018, 01:41 AM   #11
PFunkaliscious
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

Quote:
Originally Posted by twitcherroo View Post
You can shove almost anything profitably once. I wouldn’t make a habit out of it here but first time probably gets through.
this.

with your supertight image you have plenty of FE from the table. Do it more than once and in a game this big, someone is likely to look you up.

some things to consider. Are you just trying to pick up 60 or so dead dollars with your one free push? That seems like a waste. Wait until there is 250 or so dead dollars in the middle and THEN push. Don't listen to the advice about the relative strength of your hand. If you have a strong hand, great. What you are really waiting for is a situation where none of your opponents look like they have a strong hand.

Also, you don't have to shove to get folds. Sometimes making it 155 over the 40 looks much strong and you will get more folds simply because your V's know that it is less likely that they will get to see all five cards.

but the best advice is... get out of this game with your small stack and play something where you can actually play profitable poker.

shorthanded in a game like this you want to be covering the table and squeezing the small stacks. instead, that is what the rest of the table is doing to you

Last edited by PFunkaliscious; 11-22-2018 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 11-22-2018, 04:35 AM   #12
wj94
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

If you want to try lighting $350 on fire, sure.
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Old 11-23-2018, 02:04 AM   #13
Nozsr
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

Don't do it in this spot.

Come to my games instead and do it there.

One time!
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Old 11-23-2018, 04:11 PM   #14
WarPig6565
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

These types of plays are more fun when there's more dead money. Like if there's a few callers and I have a decent chance of taking down $150ish or flipping against 10s or something with loads of dead money.
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Old 11-23-2018, 07:08 PM   #15
QuadJ
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBluf View Post
Since I wasnt sure about the spot I decided to anylize it and put in some assumptions here is the outcome.
UTG opens from 78o (since I have seem him open this from UTG) so around 35.75% of hands (any pair, any broadway 45s+, 78o+ A2s+, 97s+, Q9s, K9s, J9o, Q9o, K9o, A2o+)
This sort of analysis has a problem against competent players. A decent or better LAG is opening all of his strong hands but only opening the lower end some of the time. As a result his range will be weighted towards the value end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBluf View Post
I think calling range from the opener is the same (He might call AJs or 88s but first to act might fold 99s and AQo if he is tight so lets just keep it the same to make it easier)
His calling range is probably wider then that. If he is laggy he will be used to dealing with people making spazz/frustration shoves and a better idea what to call with.
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Old 11-23-2018, 10:43 PM   #16
KT_Purple
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

I'm starting to think wait is the only poster who knows how to play
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Old 11-23-2018, 11:22 PM   #17
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

Quote:
Originally Posted by KT_Purple View Post
I'm starting to think wait is the only poster who knows how to play
bad news for wait
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:03 AM   #18
wait
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Re: 5/5/10 Shove pre

Quote:
Originally Posted by KT_Purple View Post
I'm starting to think wait is the only poster who knows how to play
Please
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