hey everyone,

I ran this hand by a couple of friends last night and mixed opinions all around. So I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts if you’d like to play along.

I haven’t been at the table that long, bled for a while and then doubled up with a set. Had been active though bc of good card distribution to this point

UTG is a super splashy 30-40s guy. Seems friendly, been scooping a lot of pots and raising/betting everywhere. Not many showdowns. Have seen a couple bluffs, nothing significant. Wearing a nice watch etc

3-bet four times, 4-bet once in around fifty hands so far.

MP is grinder type.

Hero is early 20s online perfessional testing the 5/5 & 5/10 live waters. probably perceived as such given I’m not very talkative and extremely serious at the table.

5/5/10

Hero has $1,260. UTG covers. MP has $600~

OTTH

Pre-flop: UTG straddles $10. V RFI $35 MP. Folds to hero in the bb who wakes up with 7 7.

What are you doing?

More interesting than it seems at first glance. I think you can make a case for all 3 actions.

I think I'm callling here 3-betting 4 times in 50 hands isn't completely nutso.

Mid PPs are a bit easier to play OOP than SCs, so if we're two or three handed, for the most part we either hit our set or not.

I'm never folding here to one bet and really never raising unless there's a good chance I can get two folds. 77 just doesn't play well in 3 bet pots, out of position....particularly multi way

slam dunk call, planning on flopping a set

Can you see if UTG is going to call or not? If he is going to call then call. If he is going to fold then folding against a grinder from OOP is fine. If you are not sure then I prefer a call. UTG probably won't fold and doesn't seem to be raising too often.

Having UTG in the hand helps a couple of ways. It lowers SPR which makes it easier to get stacks in when hero does hit. It gives hero a second target for when hero hits and also the grinder is also likely to stick around longer if the splashy villain is betting into the pot.

It seems like you've tuned into the ebb and flow of the table and both villains. I presume you've been playing with them for a couple of hours, or more. For those reasons, I'm OK with calling the $35 OOP. However, I really, really don't want the UTG to 3-bet. So, I'm going to pause a moment, or three to evaluate that possibility before calling.

As to raising ... no, nope, uh uh, not happening, like never. The number one way you keep out of trouble playing OOP is by getting in spots where you have relative position and raising pre-flop throws that away at a time you need it.

Ty! UTG seemed interested but hard to know what kind of hand strength that represents without a more solid read ofc. I think even this V will be sqz pretty tight given closing the action + great price.

Hero calls. UTG overcalls.

Flop ($100): A 8 7. checks through.

Turn ($100): A 8 7 J.

Let’s not drag this out and skip to the turn.

Hero? Our hand is 7 7

$1225E w UTG who is the main V.

I think there’s merit to donking flop and I like to keep an open mind about it esp on later streets given Vs largely don’t react to it well. However, I think most will suggest checking so let’s just go with that as it’s what I did here as well.

Multiple bets go in OTT, this is where the hand gets interesting

bet $80

Betting large. It's actually a great spot to overbet. We're gonna have 9Ts 88 and 77 as well as some fds/combo draws. We don't block any of the higher pairs and it looks bluffy too.

I'm betting 150 but really anything larger than 75 is good

Edit: pre is 95% call and 5% 3bet for me

While I love the set, I don't like the board. I would have bet $25 OTF. The donk looks weak and it is, but it gathers information. Frankly, I'm hoping to get raised and depending on the size, call. Either way, checking most turns, with the intention of putting in a c/r.

As played, bet $75.

Checking flop.

We've got a set and basically were set mining on this hand. So we need to generate two streets of value at least to justify playing pf. It is surprising V1 didn't bet the flop, especially if he had an ace. For now, I'm underweighting the odds he has an ace. So my best chances of getting two streets is to jiggle the idiot switch. I'd bet $40. It looks like a TPMK bet and may induce him to raise. Ignoring the grinder for the moment unless he starts betting.

Turn seems like a good spot to check again, as it seems quite likely someone will stab at it. Not always to check-raise.

I also think turn lead from hero will be interpreted as strong from villains, even though we do have some semibluffs.

Ty guys!

I appreciate the different perspectives & feedback.

If the turn was a blank I’d bet large, but I think OOP, multi-way, with a healthy SPR and a plethora of unfavorable rivers following this card— we want to proceed with caution with most of our hands.

UTG may have all sixteen combos of 109 and the PFR binking middle set occasionally as well.

could be completely wrong, here to learn
——

Turn ($100): A 8 7 J.

Our hand is 7 7.

Hero probes $45. V raises $225. Other V folds. Hero? (This is a call or raise question). No one is allowed to suggest folding

$1180E behind after my bet. $1000 exactly back heading into the river if I flick in a call.

V took between 30 seconds to a minute before flicking in the two blacks and five redbirds- couldn’t really pick up on anything.

When you bet turn, your range is rather uncapped; villain should know that and yet he still reraises. A semibluff with a draw is less advisable now, because if he gets reraised, he will have to fold. So this means that his raise is mostly value IMO and you lose to most of it. So I am calling hoping that the board pairs on the river.

If it doesn't, you could be facing a pretty tough decision depending on the size of the bet.

Flop can be a bet or a check. More checks then bets but the board is wet enough that you should have some donks in your range.

On the turn you need to lead. It becomes too risky that it will check around again and you can't make enough on your set. When you get raised it's an obvious call. A splashy villain can be raising a wide range on this board, particularly after hero could be leading anything. Villain has draws, pair + draw, T9, two pair, sets, a few bluffs even just AX with a good kicker. Raising would mostly just kick out the hands we beat and get called by big hands and big draws.

What to do on the river is going to vary a lot depending on what card hero gets and any read we have on villain. On a lot of cards the best option will be check/call.

I think the flop has to be a bet, not a check.

To me what tilts it in favor of betting is that you have UTG in the hand. If he happens to have a hand that would have paid 3 streets of value, you can’t let this hand check through on the flop. Also, we are out of relative position if the preflop raiser bets. So we may as well put the bet in ourselves.

I'm going to sit out the rest of this hand, as I just can't get my head straight. Something about the way you posted it has alarm bells going off like crazy. When I'm in a hand and those alarm bells go off like this I tend to shut down. Usually, I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong. Either way, you either trust your own judgment, or you don't. I do.

a turn 3b would be a significant mistake

Probably because most hands get posted here when OP makes a standard/reasonable play and still loses. People really need to balance their posting range by occasionally posting boring/standard hands too.

Really don't like the turn sizing. I use a ton of small bets but this is just begging to be put in **** spots and we miss value too. We aren't getting called by a jack here no matter what size we use. People don't fold an ace to one bet either. This size doesn't make sense for our range. We're not betting weak suited aces or even 87s so we need to go big when we do bet

Small bets get read as weak by good live players. Especially if hero is young and largely unknown. You're going to look like scared money to them. We're in the dark now.

Just call and play the river

Pre and flop I like.

Turn I go bigger. I'd only bet that small to induce. If that was your plan, well done. I flat now and evaluate river. I don't see a point in raising.

I like preflop, I think a raise in that spot is spew. You might win right away, but if you don't you're playing the rest of the hand OOP with a hand with very little equity.

Flop is fine. I'm not sure why anyone would suggest betting. Makes no sense withthe story you're telling.

Turn, your hand is so disguised, that I bet villain can raise her with A8 (And there's three combos of A8s left), A7, AJ, 78 56s. He would have been checking to the raiser on the flop with all those hands. Never putting Villain on AA, or JJ in this spot. We're worried about 88, and 109 mostly. If you were shorter, I'd even rip it in, but so deep I'd call and reevaluate the river.

Grunch call is standard, also don't mind an occasional 3! in super-high raked games, almost always call though.

non-grunch, turn I like the overbet or a small probe size trying to induce (liketh caution, the overbet better), with your mid-sized bet I call and proceed with a call

Call, see river.

ty, everyone! I appreciate the feedback and different perspectives.

I think the turn is more interesting than it first appears v the raise given this V is probably not folding many of their bluffs, like spades, to a turn 3b- even if I jam I would think. Maybe I did a bad job with the description.

Also, when V does have AJ, 87, A8 etc that decided to wait until the turn we’re incentived to get it all in here before action killing rivers come out.

In a tougher environment like small/mid stakes online not considering a turn 3b though w these stack sizes, even v a reg.

Just my 2c though if anyone’s looking for OP’s perspective as well (I doubt it )

Interesting, ty for the comment sir.

Generally speaking, I'm a big fan of donking in this kind of environment given how many spots come up where V's will react poorly vs it/make pretty large mistakes they wouldn't otherwise.

Here it's tricky. Most of what we're getting called by if we donk 80% pot is betting themselves and putting in a x/r is probably advantageous given people don't really raise donks aggressively enough in general. Especially large ones.

And that's not even considering the implications it has for our checking range as I assume you want to donk 88s and 87setc as well.

I don't think striving for balance in a spot like this is particularly important but it's nice to be protected when either V decides to blast off versus our x/c and that becomes much harder when we start taking a lot of our best hands out of said range.

Even if they're not actively exploiting us, we'll still face crazy aggression from time to time.

Can’t speak for others but I review hundreds/thousands of hands a month in my online exploits so this is a non factor.

Results will have little bearing in the hands I post. Nor will the post size!

So feel free to share your genuine thoughts

What kind of watch?

You are obviously a good player with some good online volume based on your PGC, so the best thing you can learn from this HH is to please don't do this.

Marsh