Hero thinks it over and calls. Took a while (couple minutes maybe) fowls evaluating the above.

($550) River: A 8 7 J J Hero checks. V hesitate jams 1k. Says “all in” if it matters.

Genuine question. How often do you think this player type is ripping four figures (in this case 1k but broad question) on the river as a bluff?

I think this sizing really moves the needle given V will mostly continue under pot here otr I would think….

V can see that the board paired, do you guys think he’s going piling 10-9 1.8x pot

I don’t do cooler posts, so please feel free to share what you would do in game. Don’t read into my tonality or anything, there’s nothing there!

Wondering if you guys think that that clicking fold is ridiculous

assuming we can take AA and JJ out of Villain's range, we lose to AJ, 88 J8ss if V called with that pre flop

we beat 10 9 that could conceivably shove for value given how we've played this and KJ, QJ, J10 hands that Villain is overplaying. surely there are no other Ax hands

against a good player, this is a fold but against a 'super splashy' guy with a nice watch, I think I'm calling.


(btw, I'm raising turn against this villain to charge two pairs and flush draws. we're only behind 88 and 10 9at this stage)

I haven't seen many recs shove 2x pot as a bluff, nor have I seen many recs shove 2x with a straight in a paired board. I am 99% confident in taking the straights out of his range.

I do leave JJ in (it's only a combo anyway) and I assign him AJ, 88, J8s, JJ, for 11 value combos. I can see 6 bluff combos of KsQs, KsTs, Ks9s, QsTs, Qs9s and 5s6s. Even if you include all of those in his range - and frankly I wouldn't- they make 35% of his shoving range. You need 39% equity to call.

I fold.

Judgement call about how many bluffs he has and/or a live read. I don't think calling or folding is really bad. I suspect it comes down to what villain does with JX that isn't a boat and if he has any bluffs or not.

My inclination is making a pained call with a splashy villain. Villain likely doesn't put hero on a hand as good as hero has and may be going for value with any JX.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was a rolex.. I'm no connoisseur though

Thank you for the kind words, sir! Didn't know you followed, don't hesitate to share your thoughts in there if you'd like whenever. Don't plan to create threads in this sub forum too often.

Haha, it is nice to feel at home in the 5/5 from day 1. Still getting there in the 5/10+ though as it plays huuuge and I have v little live experience.

As for the bolded, I try man. hard. For one, LA poker environment not nearly as welcoming as most places.

but it's just way too hard/draining for me honestly given I do poker 75+ hours a week and what not. not there/too tired to socialize.

it's been fun stacking chips though
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So not sure how long to wait before sharing what I did/results if applicable?

ty all

appreciate the feedback, guess a few extra comments could help provide more clarity on the spot

Yeah, I think given this V probably not folding spades/semi-bluffs to a turn 3b + getting more money in vs 2p ASAP I think vs this V turn 3b real consideration for sure and part of what I thought made the hand pretty interesting.

with the 109 the way I personally like to approach it is assigning a certain amount of combos based on all the info we have. Rather than giving them all or none of it, I like keeping the nuance.Let’s give them like 25% of that maybe.

Ty! I don’t think we can be that confident (99%) about anything in this spot really but I tend to agree with this line of thinking and why I thought river was a real decision vs this monster sizing.

I don’t think jam is the only sizing V is choosing here when they bet, even if they’re not approaching this in a sophisticated manner.

Ty!
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Something else to keep in mind is we arrive here w 88s and the sooted variety of AJ ourselves so not top of range for whatever that’s worth

Lead A87s flop exactly never, huh.

Turn overbet exactly never. Bet-call fits range, 3b seems monstrously OOL considering just about everything that bet-continues is going to bet-call - I mean you cant even get in T9 unless it's w a spade which is likely just a single combo T9ss from BB, so that likely has to get rolled into a bet-call range too.

Riv, man that's a big bet and a very dirty spot. I mean, is there any indication that Jxss is being bet for value? He just had to flick pre closing action and is splashy so he has all the boats. Thing is, guy sounds capable of turning 99s TTs 7xss and stuff like that into bluffs, as long as that's reasonable, I don't think there are as many naked FDs here, bluffs are more of the cool 1p not blocking folding range variety, unless he's just stone terrible. Call bc it's really not all that deep.

OK, the feeling I have on the turn is that you just found an overset. In order to fold, however, I would need a strong live read.

Idk what your range looks like on the river since you haven't said what else you play this way (forgive me if you did and I missed it) What hands do we have? Do we have bricked combo draws? 87s? A8s? J8s?

Why is he overbetting the river do you think? As played, you've reacted like you had a TP hand. He has no reason to think your range is exclusively a FH. If you had TP, you'd most likely fold. So why does he want you to fold most of your range if he has a better FH?

With a splashy player who knows he's up against a noob 5/10 player (he knows all the regulars at this level), I've got to call unless I know he'll not shove the river without the nuts. If the money bothers you, time to move back down for a while.

Ty, gentleman.

I guess there’s not too much value in answering any additional questions as the results will be in this post. I appreciate the detailed analysis though and I’m sure others do as well.

Hero reluctantly calls after thinking everything over for a bit. Luckily, V says “you’re good” and we fastroll.

V was to my direct left and flashed us the K as well as another x. Didn’t catch what it was, and since V seemed agitated that I didn’t snap with the boat I didn’t press for info. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was K 10

results don’t give us too much clarity on whether V is value betting worse w this 1.8x pot sizing ofc.

And nice to scoop the $2,500+ for a 5/5, but that’s largely irrelevant and doesn’t really influence my decision to post the hand up. More focused on if I made the correct decisions all around

ty all for playing

Aren’t we bluff catching river?

The awkward sizing from Hero on turn makes river slightly more difficult but still seems like a pretty clear call once we realize villain can also shove river with ax.

Also overbet shove from j8 and aj would be super greedy because there are probably not enough hands that can call.

I definitely think it’s *possible* V doesn’t have worse and that’s why it’s a little tricky.

but in reality tough to say imo as V isn’t a reg/good reg who only would take this sizing w better. So not a pure bluff-catcher.

I think most would agree that this player type probably overplaying something worse a decent amt on average which pushes us to a call, I suppose. And that’s on top of any bluffs + spazz.

I didn’t love it though and scooping the pot largely meaningless

I've seen the results, but for me vs this V and the way the hand was played (by both of you), river is definitely a call.

That's the hope, but it's important to understand that there is an uncomfortably wide better-for-value range here too which is why were reading the HH.

V has:
88/AJ/JJ always that ck flop raise turn very often (JJ calls pre sometimes, enough to account for as part of his range)
J8/J7s very often that ck flop raise turn often (only a couple combos and turn raise is not 100%, but has to be accounted for)
J8/J7o sometimes that ck flop raise turn often (not impossible if loose splashy and closing action in the straddle)
T9s always T9o sometimes that ck flop raise turn often/very often (but do they bet 1k otr as a bluff to fold boats/chop block somehow? dicey)
AA rarely but takes this line post always.

Now find the bluffs that raise turn ... Txss/9xss ... raise turn sometimes, shove river sometimes ... Jxss is hard to categorize, but 1k sizing otr is ambitious so perhaps less frequent.

As far as him shoving all the boats, the FD missed and that gives a player in this game license to bet huge -- not bc they're truly thinking about their ranges, just a level 1 type of awareness that say 'I can bet any amount bc the draw missed and i can look bluffy when I have a boat, All in'


So, sure, it's a call, but a spot that's a lot dirtier than you'd like.

+1
This is pretty much what I was thinking when I saw the river action