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5/3 at commerce, wrong check on the turn? 5/3 at commerce, wrong check on the turn?

03-12-2015 , 12:52 AM
Hi there, my first post!

This one a hand played at 200 tables (5/3) at commerce. Is almost a new game, Im in the hijack and I guess I have a tight image because I have only played 3 hands in almost 6 rounds, winning at showdown or uncontested. Wanted to get advantage of this, to collect the blinds and a limp from the UTG.

I had KJ in the hijack, raised to 20, the Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG folds.

I have no read from the BB and the button seems a calling station.

Flop comes QJ3r, check to me, I bet 40, Button calls, BB calls as well. Now I guessed the BB had Qx and the button some kind of draw (wrong reasoning I know now) I don't think somebody cold call in the BB with QJ, although AJ is a possibility

There is 185+ on the pot. Each one has 150+ behind

The turn, a marvelous J. BB checks, I check, Button checks.

The river is a T

The BB bets 80, I shove, the button folds and the BB calls, showing the AKo

Questions:

Is the check in the turn a mistake? Should I bet big on this spot (there is only 4 outs for this guy)? What happened was just variance, or a bad play?

What do you think the button had? A random Q?
Was it good to play the AKo this way?

I guess the shove was a mistake. My reasoning was that I was good is some instances, and if he had AJ, I could represent QJ or TJ… although there were not enough money to drive him away.

I appreciate any input on this. Thanks a lot
5/3 at commerce, wrong check on the turn? Quote
03-12-2015 , 02:43 AM
you made two key mistakes in this hand.

1) checking turn. from a purely theoretical standpoint a turn bet is your only remaining time in the hand where you can represent air. therefore with your increased actual hand strength not betting is criminal. you also made note of button being a calling station. calling stations don't bet a wide range on board pairing turns. they will call with inferior hands on these turns though.

you should probably just shove turn here and not worry about a smaller sizing, since villains are probably calling any sizing with a Q, overpair, or even underpairs since this is live, low stakes.

2) jamming river. now that you got here a call is fine. you certainly don't have the nuts and villain's call shove range is going to be comprised of hands that mostly beat you.
5/3 at commerce, wrong check on the turn? Quote
03-12-2015 , 11:04 AM
Thanks, Lookatmenow

Thinking on the hand, I realize that actually the check in the turn and the all in the river is the same mistake, as I thought that how on earth they could improve. So I thought that if I bet, I make them fold, but if I check I might get an extra bet from some of them. It was confusing the way he played the AK, as I wasn't worried either if they had a set…

nice bit about the calling station. Thanks
5/3 at commerce, wrong check on the turn? Quote
03-12-2015 , 11:38 AM
you wanted to shove someone off of aj????

??????
5/3 at commerce, wrong check on the turn? Quote
03-12-2015 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BitchiBee
you wanted to shove someone off of aj????

??????
Not my best thought….
5/3 at commerce, wrong check on the turn? Quote
03-16-2015 , 02:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPCharly

Questions:

Is the check in the turn a mistake? Should I bet big on this spot (there is only 4 outs for this guy)? What happened was just variance, or a bad play?

What do you think the button had? A random Q?
Was it good to play the AKo this way?
So no input on this? anyone?
5/3 at commerce, wrong check on the turn? Quote
03-16-2015 , 02:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by look at me now
…not betting is criminal. you also made note of button being a calling station. calling stations don't bet a wide range on board pairing turns. they will call with inferior hands on these turns though.
Interesting observation. Sounds simple, but is a nice bit to remember.
5/3 at commerce, wrong check on the turn? Quote
04-13-2015 , 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPCharly
So no input on this? anyone?
I know this is a month old but I'm trying to get into talking more strategy than i usually do

IMO, checking the turn isn't terrible considering you are playing so short. But considering you have a station along with another villain in the hand i think betting 60 or 65, then shoving the river would be optimal. I think a shove(as someone said above) would fold out a lot of hands you could to keep in. betting 1/3 pot would allow one pair hands to easily call and you set yourself up for a small shove which any queen/slowplayed overpair/ or even 910s/o might have to call.

I do think you could've checked flop or def bet smaller on flop.
5/3 at commerce, wrong check on the turn? Quote
04-13-2015 , 07:46 PM
I think you should bet turn to get value from 9T, Jx, Ak, aq, kq,qT,q9, and weirdly slow played AA, KK.
I think this makes up a large enough part of BB flop calling range.i would bet 100 behind and shove the final 50 on any river.

I also don't mind a shove on the turn here as I still think your getting called by Jx, AA, KK, Aq,kq and even AK and 9t in some lsnl.

I hate the shove on the river as your only being called by better and folding out worse.
5/3 at commerce, wrong check on the turn? Quote

      
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