FWIW I did think KQs was in his 3 bet range; that's just how this 5/10 game was played. QJs was an outside possibility just because I had a big stack and was probably the table target and that is a pretty darn good hand to try to iso the fish with.

Whether right or screwed me I discounted flushes a good bit as I felt villain would barrel with FD often on turn.

A turn bet is obviously a really standard play in this spot and probably correct. I was thinking on the turn that I was likely to only get 1 street against hands I beat. Getting that street on on the river kept the pot smaller and prevented a sickening turn reraise. Getting that street on the turn prevented the diamonds or very unlikely straight from getting there. Since I discounted diamonds with villains turn check I decided to try to go for the river value.

As sissy as I played this hand I would have definitely value bet the river had villain checked.

Exactly.... other than an A or Q the J was a terrible card to see (which I dumbly didn't really think about until it popped out). Villain plays JJ exactly like this tons!

The fairly dry side pot is a relevant factor, although maybe not as much as normally in this situation. I can't describe it but button had obviously given up and I at least had the read that even A high was likely good against button.

That said it is relevant and definitely for me skewed villains river bet range more towards value. I don't think he'd bluff garbage given the small side pot, but his (small) bluffing range might have some AK, 1010, 88.

On the river I was thinking a true air bluff was super unlikely so came down a lot to whether villain was value betting with worse given how underrepped my hand was.

Thanks and I agree with the advice. I am normally pretty aware that I am not the best (and hopefully not the worst) at any given table. There are several times I stayed at a table where I was further down the totem pole skill wise and I knew it and ignored it to 'prove myself'. At the same time I do think it helps one grow as a poker player to find some spots to stretch comfort levels, skill of opponents, etc. I'm not a reg just trying to grind out $40/hr at 2/5.

I like the time limit approach the best as well, takes away pressure to chase losses or protect wins.

But most profitabke way to play is 4b pre when you know the shortie is punting. If there is an inkling he might fold then thats the only reason to flat

600 pre please, how often does this spot come up..choice spot to 4b and win 300 without showdown even if shortie does something stupid and folds

Go ger your $$ and make it 600 pre

Flop has a Q, a J, 3 diamond, a 9. I can't think of many hands the button could cold call the inital 75 with that short, not jam, and not have at least a pair.

For the most part I would read his resignation as a small-mid pair that did not improve. If I'm the main villain I think I can win the side pot with a Q or J, but not random AK.

This whole post is really good thanks. Agree with all of it and this is one of the most interesting parts to the whole 'shot-taking' thing. This was my 6th ever session of 5/10 for probably a total of 10-12 hours. While bankroll isn't a huge issue as I am overrolled for 2/5 at the low frequency I play the actual $'s are still really material. As a rec player being in $2k-5k is not yet 'normal' which makes the psychological part very very different.

Of course it was the same thing 3-4 years ago when I started to play 2/5 more regularly. Playing $500-$2,000 2/5 pots seemed insane at first compared with 1/2 homegame type stuff. But now years later I can win/lose multiple 2/5 buyins and large 2/5 pots without blinking.

I'm not there yet with 5/10 so the challenge is how to adjust in a non-EV way while exposing myself to build that comfort level with 5/10 $ amounts and more creative less ABC play styles.

5/10 and 2/5 arent that much different skill wise, except the fish are fishier and sharks are sharkier

In my very limited sample size at 2 different cross country casinos the 5/10 plays with a double or triple % of 3 and 4 bet PF, and dramatically wider raise and 3 bet calling ranges. Because of this all subsequent streets play much more creatively and higher variance.

But that could just be the small number of 5/10 games I have personally played in.

Yeah when my post went up and then I saw yours I thought how crazy it was that we both wrote ours at exactly the same time


Open fold pre is certainly the lowest variance, since there is no variance at all.

Not to de-rail too much but:
Note that what I said was to 4b bomb, which would default put button all in and would likely lead to the 3b folding a significant part of his range: thus lower variance.

I believe 4b bomb is lower variance because the most likely outcomes are: all in as a big fav against button for 40BB with an overlay bc the 3b folds OR everyone folds. both of those are far far lower variance than a multi-way pot where there are multiple streets of betting.

I believe 4b bomb is high variance because

A) we are very likely to go 3 way. If the button calls it drags the straddle in. If the buttom folds then tge straddle can fold QQ and play AA.

If you wish to figure out the lowest variance, count the number of folds. Clearly raising flop gets the most folds and wins the pot a lot as is. Its a LOT less variance than 4b pre flop. That means is also less profit tho but variance and profit are tecnically the same thing

Usually 4b is lowest varisnce but this spot is different. Its a pretty unique spot since straddle is priced in every time bitton calls, so we should either get 2 folds or 2 calls, but doubt button ever folds.

Now we can go 800 pre but that insures straddle always folds QQ so yeah...big variance 4betting

I gladly take that variance and make it 600 tho. Pretty sure i dont care if he kmows what i have.

Im in the 4b or gtfo camp, but im assuming the 5% of the time i flat, then i raise flop, bet turn as played, tank fold riv prob

i'm gonna be a smartass and say call because you said villain didn't show his cards and there was a sidepot.



but honestly this nails it. 53s I'm not so sure about man. Maniac never folds post so abuse it by playing hands that flop strong pairs, not suited 1 gapper.

meh, low suited 1 gappers are awesome to raise in position multiway when you've been play insanely tight. It's like playing omaha, you get to actually have the 35, but get to pretend you have the Aces and Kings. Lots of ways to win!

Obviously don't recommend it often, but it's a good thing IMO to stick in every once in a while. If you don't show down a few of those when you are actually playing tight you'll never get action when you have a hand!

I see what you mean, it has it's merits for sure but consider this, what do you really want?

Do you want to balance your range vs the reg in the room and get action from players you barely have an edge on or do you want to capitalize on the guy you have a huge edge on (the maniac) and press that edge harder?

Suited gapper otb, gotta take some shots imo, im certain i may have played the 53 hand the same at least some of the time...gotta use your button

Results

Hero Calls, Villain shows A:Q and my KK is good.

Short stacked button mucked never saw his holding


Thinking
Obviously I agree with all the thinking about the most profitable and normal lines being much more aggression really on any street.

As played I did think the river was close as it seems we have some split opinions here.

In the end I thought a couple of primary things...

A) Villain is very rarely on an air bluff due to the fairly small side pot. If this is a 2 way pot this is prob an insta-call

B) Villain has JJ and I let him get there crap crap crap crap

C) I played the hand so passively (especially turn check back) that villain is definitely going to think AQ/KQ/QJ is good and those are really likely holding in this spot.


In the end C won out and luckily this time it was right instead of QQ or JJ.
Up to the river it is more of a poker psycology discussion but the river I think was a genuinely interesting spot as played.

Some good line suggestions and strat/psych talk

Wow...nice. good hand OP

I hate villains bet on the river. Its terrible.

A lot of us just overthought this but most people will just call with better as a reflex, so its a terrible spot to bet when its so so easy to fold everthing worse and call everything better

I dont think there are many who would fold KK so i have no clue what v is thinking. Cc or cf with AQs. I think its an autocheck in the dry side pot on river.

So he got greedy and the passive play for value worked so very nice hand sir

Btw this is the nut bottom of his range