Action is 4 handed.
We're on the button with ~$1200 and have everyone covered.
Action is folded to us, I pickup JJ.

I raise to $35.
Small blind folds, big blind 3-bets to $120.
I 4-bet to $360.
Big blind 5-bet jams for $1,015.

I consider folding, but after some thought I decide to call.
Villain shows AK of diamonds.

The runout is favorable for us and I scoop the pot, ~$2035.


At the time, I thought it was a close call between folding or calling. But now, looking at the hand in my hand history, I'm having second thoughts. Am I wrong here?

I dunno, I'm confused about this hand and keep thinking, "How did I make that call"? Is it a fishy call or it's okay?

What do you guys think?

How can someone analyze if you give no info about the villain?

It was literally like the 5th hand into the session.

Against a player I dont know, on those stakes, I'll assume any playback I get on a 4bet got my JJ killed with no more info

I would assume you would flat 3-bet then instead of 4-betting?

I'd prefer to

if you put him on a range of QQ-AA and AK you have 36% equity and you only need 30% equity for this to be a call as you are getting 2.33:1 pot odds on a call

Why did you 4-bet to $360? What was your plan and read if he flat called? What was your plan if he shoved? Did you think that far ahead?

If your opponent only has AA - JJ you have 17% equity needing 32%, so you should fold.
Add in only AKs and you have 23.73% equity, needing 32%. You should fold.
Add in AKo and your equity jumps to 34.82%, needing only 32% to call.

You're winning about 4BB's per hand if your opponent has the range of AKo+ and losing 17BB's per hand if your opponent has only AKs+

If you have KK in a 10 handed game there is a 4.4% chance that a V will have AA. In a 4 handed game there is a 4.4% chance a V will have QQ-AA so having JJ in this situation is like having KK in a full ring game.

I really hate math stated like this. If I look down and see KK, the odds of someone else having before anyone acts is 4.4%. Once there is action the odds change dramatically. If 4 people fold before it gets to me the odds go down significantly. If I raise and get 3 bet, what are the odds of him having AA now? Who knows, but its certainly not 4.4% anymore.

It doesnt matter if its 4 handed or not. If someone will only 3 bet with QQ+, he has QQ+ 100% of the time. Whether or not he will 3 bet a lot lighter when the game goes from full to 4 handed is up to you to decide.

Thomas Bayes likes the cut of your jib.

Sliding in 36% of eff stack pre flop and then folding pre flop is crazy talk.

I feel like I should know what that means, but sadly I don't.

Thomas Bayes (Thomas Bayes Theorem) likes your style.....i.e. Thomas Bayes would agree with what you’re saying

In a 4 handed 5/T game, sticking in ~100 bbs pre with JJ, seems pretty standard.

That's what I figured. Plus people make moves like this with AK and sometimes AQs at $5/$10 having blockers.

I also figured he wouldn't want to take a flop out of position with AK and thats why he's jamming. I think with AA/KK I lean more towards a flat of the 4-bet out of position and if the flop is favorable then jam?

How are you getting this math?

So I guess the issue up for debate is my 4-bet, not the call off jam right? My thinking was if if I flat the 3-bet and the flop is favorable, due to stack sizes we're most likely getting it in anyway if he has me crushed. If he has AK he's probably folding on an undercard flop no backdraws and I'd rather get him to jam pre with AK so I can realize my equity, or he could possibly fold AQs and AK preflop as I do have some fold equity with the 4-bet i think.

Also, I think it's a mistake to only be 4-betting with QQ-AA and AK. You then remove all bluffs from your 4-betting range and are capping your 4-bet range?

If he flatted the 4-bet my plan was to assess on the flop, depending on board texture. If a flop with two overs to my jacks came and he lead out, I was out of there. I didn't want to see a flop like that.

If he shoved my plan was to call given JJ 4 handed is very strong and hands like A2-A5s and ATs-AKs plus AQo and AKo could make this exact play to get me off a 4-bet bluff hand like 66-99 and AJ-AK. Now I know he doesn't only 5-bet jam with QQ-AA. Plus I think those hands are too strong to jam 4 handed. In my opinion unless he specifically puts me on QQ-KK and he has AA.

brain fart mostly, lol.....it should be 1380/655 = 2.1 and then 1/3.1= 32%.....for some unknown reason I think I must have added 35 and 120 to the 1380 and done 1535/655

No I mean could you explain what the numbers mean? The first you're taking pot odds 655 to win 1380 right? What's the 1/3.1?

When V jams there’s your $360, SB’s $5, and V’s $1015 in the pot for a total of $1380. You then have to call an extra $655 ($1015-$360). Therefore, to calculate your pot odds that would be $1380/$655 = 2.1. Then to figure out the equity you need to make this a correct call you take 1/(2.1+1) = 32.2%. Therefore, you would need 32.2% equity. If you range V on QQ-AA, AK then you have 36.2% equity so you are getting the odds to call since you only need 32.2% equity.

You can play around with different equity calculators and just commit to memory some of the standard situations like this that come up. Some people like equilab. I personally use the app Poker Cruncher.

Why the 2.1 + 1? Where's the 1 come from?


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The +1 comes from the call you make, by calling you throw in that extra 655 which you get back when you win. Hence you need to divide by 2.1+1 because you can win the money you put in by calling back. (As far as my math skills go I believe that's the reason)

Anyway you can just check it by doing 32.2% x 1380 (winning) and 67.8% x 665 (losing) and you will get the same number roughly. So that means that when you win 32.2% of the time that you are breakeven. Thus when using an equity calculator you can put in a range of hands like AA-JJ + AKs + AKo and see how much % chance your hand has against that range. Which will be more than 32.2% as posted below, thus if you expect him to jam that range you should make the call.