Sorry, what? Of that 6-7% 4! range, wouldn't you want to know his continue-versus-5! range? Let's say the golden 70% of 7%, so 4.9%.

Now you want your hand to be ahead of his range, which in this case assuming uniform distribution means around top 2.5% (QQ+, AK).

AQs is just shy of that, but given the read and some fuzziness, it might still be OK to 5!.

side note: this hand occurred about 4 years ago, so villain probably doesn't remember it, but i will tell him it's here so he can come in and comment on the hand and maybe reveal. I'm perplexed and convinced i made a mistake somewhere

his 4 bet range is light here and he's somewhat capped as well with his sizing, imho

he has 100% of the KQ/KJ/QJ off suits here, I'm blocking AA and QQ, i think calling with AQ is better than calling with 77, if we had 77 we happily pitch it maybe even pre, or we just take a flop and not 3 bet at all, so i'm super capped here, i don't even really have any pairs to target, no draws either

He basically capped his range pre as. did i imo

he capped his range OTF too, this is a juicy flop to get value off of, why so much?

[QUOTE=KT ART;57227152]
he has 100% of the KQ/KJ/QJ off suits here, I'm blocking AA and QQ, i think calling with AQ is better than calling with 77, if we had 77 we happily pitch it maybe even pre, or we just take a flop and not 3 bet at all, so i'm super capped here, i don't even really have any pairs to target, no draws either
[/QUOTE ]

The above is incongruous with your statement that he’s 4! a 6-7% range. A 6-7% 4! range consists of JJ+, AK, AQs, suited wheel aces, mix of AJs/ATs. If he’s a good online player he’s never 4!ing any offsuit hands except AKo in a vacuum.


[QUOTE=KT ART;57227152]
he capped his range OTF too, this is a juicy flop to get value off of, why so much?
[/QUOTE ]

I disagree that he capped his range on the flop. You basically never have any sets except for TT. Meanwhile he has way more over pairs than you do. So he has a significant range advantage in this board. I think his advantage is so significant that he gets to bet his entire range for two sizings (one big, 66-80% size, and one small, 25-33% size). He can use his large sizing with AA and A5s/A4s (maybe also AK as a bluff, trying to get you off a chop. I would guess he prefers to use his small sizing with KK-JJ to put your Ace highs in a tough spots.

If you always 5bet with JJ+ you are going to get put in a lot of trouble on boards like this because your range is going to be primarily unpaired Ace highs, and Villain can bet relentlessly with a hand as weak as ATs. I honestly think if you’re going to have a flatting range to his 4bet you need to include QQ/JJ very often as a flat, and possibly trap occasionally with AA.

thinking more about the hand and his actual range here: i was being way conservative on his range

villain raises J9s, Q8s, and up, 55, 66, probably up to 40%

once i raise he is never flatting, his continuing range is all 4bets, he's NEVER flatting that puts his range at 10-12%, therefore AQs is significantly ahead and a mandatory 5bet...unless we are calling down this runout

Massive LOL at people who think preflop is anything but standard.

We can call sometimes, but in solver land it’s like 100% 3 bet BTN v CO open. And then it’s like 100% call v 4 bet. Calling would be a pure trade off in hoping that the blinds punt off.

The way to deal with better opponents isn’t to play worse against them

how often are you 3! V that he's not opening 22-44 in the CO when the SB/BB are not strong players? i can't think of any % that makes open folding 22-44 in the CO a correct play.

next, you think V is either 4! bluffing with 66 or folding to a 3! 250bb deep? that makes literally no sense. it's a terrible hand to 4! with, as it provides practically zero card removal, has terrible board coverage and will routinely be 3rd or 4th pair on the flop when called, but it's entirely too strong to fold this deep.

honestly, i think your reads are all kinds of off on this.

[QUOTE=ChaosInEquilibrium;57227279][QUOTE=KT ART;57227152]
he has 100% of the KQ/KJ/QJ off suits here, I'm blocking AA and QQ, i think calling with AQ is better than calling with 77, if we had 77 we happily pitch it maybe even pre, or we just take a flop and not 3 bet at all, so i'm super capped here, i don't even really have any pairs to target, no draws either
[/QUOTE ]

The above is incongruous with your statement that he’s 4! a 6-7% range. A 6-7% 4! range consists of JJ+, AK, AQs, suited wheel aces, mix of AJs/ATs. If he’s a good online player he’s never 4!ing any offsuit hands except AKo in a vacuum.


yeah i totally agree with this, i think even weaker, like QT + all his overpairs, but the fact that villain doesn't have a continuing range that isn't a 4bet makes it much better to always raise JJ+ but have balance. I just can't think of many other hands to balance, so flatting JJ+ some of the time is mandatory if you flat AQs some of the time

but i don't ever want to flat against villain here with the top of my range, i'd rather have a hand for hand range to balance so i will have to do some homework

as for the hand not necessarily poorly played by me but not optimum. I don't want to flat JJ+ here ever so i have to have reasonable hands in my range like AQs to always 5 bet and pick a few other combos....

nh, sir

OP if you’ve been trolling this whole time with these threads/responses then vnh, wp

OP how many hours do you have against this player and what hands have you seen shown down that lead you to believe he’s playing 4bet or fold in this configuration? Not having a flatting range against 3bets is very strange and I don’t think I’ve met a player who uses this strat.

If he has a bunch of king highs in his range, I like having a five bet range Pre

i'm thinking this is an online thing where we usually have 100BB

we both started at 2/5 and had a lot of hours there, but then he started playing online and doesn't show up at the casino very often so maybe 100 hours total and not much in the past few years...however, he is in his mid to late 20s and now can bring 20K to the room and play 25/50

i'm reminded of this hand because i actually faced him the other night when he was sitting on a 25K stack at 5/10

he doesn't play often there but known as a beast

what i think is that the CO should not actually have a flatting range, his approach here might be completely optimum with KJo

lets construct one

i feel like this might be too tight but

TT+, that's 30 combos i think

AKo 16
AQs 4
KQs 4
KJs 4

black 35s

sound good? loll

not sure if AJs would be a flat at least some of the time AJo, i'm not sure of the math here but say we are flatting AJs and AJo and 99-, all suited connectors, some suited gappers

honestly i'm not sure if 5 betting A5s is better than 5betting KQs, or just folding A5s lol, but i think i'd 3bet that a ton, have a bunch of aces in your R/F range tho seems good but definit not this one

FWIW just from villain's sizing he's terrible. If you think this guy is "great" then you have no hope.

hope of what? nobody here thinks they're going to get rich off poker, we are only here to evolve our game, so please stop posting ok?

thanks

Speak for yourself. No one here's going to evolve my game, I'm just here for entertainment.

Ironically, the reason you won't evolve your game is because you spend so much time getting defensive and ignoring actual advice.

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You mean preflop sizing? I think 2.4x sizing can make sense from IP, but from OOP Villain should be using closer to 3x. This small sizing doesn’t seem to generate any fold equity from our range.

I thought Villain’s flop sizing was OK on this board, but not sure.

Hand seems pretty straight forward. 3bet is fine, LOL at flatting this. Playing vs. people who are better than you, raising with a range and positional advantage evens the odds. 4bet is call probably, depends on his range. I fold vs. many villains because they have AK at worst, but w/e. Flop is easy to fold to this size.

He thinks in terms of ranges though soooooo

exactly, that eliminates 99- imo and possibly JJ/AK, it's really hard to play those hands OOP against us, so we are looking at QQ+/draws and villain could very well have 89s here, he should know i'm never folding, so i think he makes it on the smallish side with draws to represent QQ+ if he has to, but we block AA/QQ, so it doesn't make sense, and think his sizing is textbook, as it usually is

jam turn is interesting but i think it might be better to keep his bluffs in, but i don't think fold OTT is correct as played

convinced this is a mandatory 5bet, this line of ours is ok, but it's not optimum