Hi guys.

V1 is a TAG reg at my local casino, very good player (~500BB)

V2 is super nit preflop, bad player post flop (~250BB)

Hero (~600BB)

- 5/10/20 straddle

I open to 80$ UTG+1 with QQ, V1 3bet to 280$ utg+2, fold around V2 on BB who flats the 3bet, straddler folds.

I did not 4bet because V1 is never 3betting me light, I am OOP, and we are pretty deep.


Flop comes J 10 4 rainbow, V2 checks, I lead 490$, both Villains call.

Turn was a 2 (no flush possibility)

V2 checks, I check, V1 bets 980$, V2 fold..... Hero: ??

Some opinions on the hand please. What line would you use?

4bet pre, check flop?

This might be a better post for the Mid-Stakes forum. Few 5/10 players ITF, fewer 5/10/20 players, and this spot is pretty deep even with the straddle.

Generally I like the line, though I'm tempted to 4-bet pre OOP. OTF, board is pretty wet and this deep even in a 3-bet pot there should be some draws and/or 1-pair hands to get value from, so I like the bet. We're likely WA/WB OTT, so I also check. Not going to comment on action thereafter, as I saw results. Please don't post them in your OP in the future.

Disclaimer: I have not played 5/T.

Pre – vs. a range of AQ+/JJ+ Hero is about 51%. 4-betting may fold worse but there is a lot of dead $ in. Dependent on the range of the PFR.

Flop – I’d check as Hero blocks a couple of outs for AK, and this board should hit both opponent ranges. Hero blocks KQ.

Agree on folding turn.

Thanks for all the advices (rookie at 2+2) and sorry for that.

EDIT: I did not post results, only said V2 fold

Confused why you didn't 4b(not advocating) but you decided to lead into tight very good reg in a 3 way hand.

I have lot of history with both players:

V1 3betting range in this spot is AK and TT+

V2 is 4betting only AA, even KK he flats pre

Almost sure there are no KQ, J10, KJ, QJ hands on both villains.


4 bet sizing?

That is exactly what was on my mind when I lead flop...

Do you think 4 bet fold is a better line?

(V1 is capable of flatting a 4bet with AA or KK)

Dont 4! pre here. Dont lead otf. Most V's will get so tight at this stack depth in this spot its going to be difficult to get value in this spot so if you decide to go for value ott/otr if the flop checks through you will need to be very conscious of your sizing.

Yah maybe don’t donk the flop

Next time include stack and pot sizes to make it easier to read.

Flop pot size: 840
Turn pot size: 1820
Eff stack on turn: 4240

Do not 4b pre. Flop lead is pretty spewy in this spot against two ranges of TT+, AK. You would have gotten a lot more info from at least BB's hand strength if you allowed V1 to cbet. V1 may also have put money in the pot with the odd suited ace or something. Are you ever getting value from worse with QQ? And if V1 doesn't cbet you get to see BB's action on the turn anyway.

AP I think V1 never has AK type hands since the supernit was left to act on the flop and he bet into two players on the turn, so he's got an overpair or a set and both are crushing you. Diligent play is to just fold imo. Sucks but we have so many better hands in this spot.

OOP to a very good player in a 3 way 3b pot with a super nit that cold called a big 3b OOP to the world? No thank you.

Yeah, I missed the super-nit note. Ooops

I will include that, thanks.

I understand your line no 4bet, no lead. It would save me some BB.

A few things I also consider:

-V2 besides super nit is an open book post flop (old guy in his 60's), he would shove (yeah shove, not bet) with 10's JJ and KK, AA he would jam pre, QQ he might also check (although he is unlike to have that).

-V1 has almost a 100% Cbet when last agressor, some % of time check behind monsters on safe boards.

So if I check flop, he is allways cbeting around 2/3 pot and I will be on a hard spot don't knowing if he it the flop hard or don't.

By leading, in my opinion I get more info as he calls flop and bet turn... Am I Wrong?

How you get more info? You likely strengthen his range a tad bit.

For your answer on turn. Simply put his range into calculator vs QQ.

Your drawing almost dead vs it.

If you flat pre. You should be wanting him to cbet 100%. It's a leak, and one we can use to our advantage.

This donk bet is truly one of worst I have seen in awhile.

Just check and call flop. We have a lot of 10,10 and JJ in our 3bet flat range. So we are going to get a lot of turn checks.

But if you are ranging him at Ak, 10+. We are getting killed by his turn bet range. Highly doubt a solid tight player is betting AK on this turn.

When you bet flop. What was your reason?

I doubt he has a 100% c-bet on this board 3-way with the nit cold calling but whatever. You’re losing to 18 combos of JJ-TT/KK+ and beating 16 combos of AK. Betting accomplishes nothing.

Given V2 image and stack, I'd reconsider the 4! and agree on calling pre.

I've only played 5/T a few times, but I don't like a 4bet pre and I don't like a lead on the flop. I'd rather check/decide (check/call and make him slow down on the turn). As played, I just fold turn.

No 4 bet/anything is terrible

this

should be a definite fold on the turn i think but if we like him for a premium hand and his only bluff is AK then i don't see why we are leading the flop at all, it might just be a c/f OTF with the J and T on board, i like either a c/c on the flop or preferably a c/f as we are beat by just about everything if he's checking AK which seems mandatory from his perspective

Thanks for everything guys.

It's fine don't 4 bet pre giving the stack sizes and position.

The flop lead was a mistake, reading your opinions I can see that didn't accomplish nothing by doing that except the spew

So I think flat preflop, c/c flop given the V1 Cbet leak and check turn to evaluate was a better line.

Yeah, you folding turn was the "results" I was saying not to post in the OP because folks would know how the hand ended. It's fine now, since discussion has died down. I didn't want to explain that while the discussion was in full-swing though, as I'd spoiler your action by explaining what I meant.

You are right again... I will get there. Next hand will be more careful with that and stack sizes.

Thanks again

No worries.

Grumch call pre- is standard that deep IMO unless one of the players is a fish...flop I would just check and play in flow. obv calling if ppl bet, once both players call your lead alarm bells would be going off in my head and I like your check, not alot of protection needed and with I would particularly be worried about V2. as for V1 does he ever 3! with AJ here? If not I think you can make a nit fold on the turn,him betting AK,AQ here would be pretty bad as played so you are chopping with his QQ crushed by his AA,JJ (some TT)...his only bluffs are KxQx which you block and as a nit 3-bet flatting range OOP is like 99-QQ,AK I'd prob let it go on the turn, assuming your reads are correct, I guess that question is how often would v1 turn AK, or AQ (some combos prob even fold to flop donk) into a bluff into 2 ppl on the turn?

Kimoser22, V1 never 3bet AJ pre in this spot.

Although he has a large Cbet %, when someone calls he stop firing (when miss) so the turn bet is never AQ or AK...