V1 and I are known to be the loosest players at the table and, consequently, we have been in a lot of hands against each other. V2 is probably the best player or one of the best in the room. He is a classic TAG who can be a total nightmare to play against because he can and will 3b/b/b/b with anything from.soup to nuts. I've played with him as much as V1 but can't remember many showdowns against him because he doesn't check down much and seems to read ppl extremely well. He's super nice off the table but seems downright mean when you're in a hand with him.

Hero has had a rough time getting traction at this table but sits at his starting stack of 2500 after a few hours of play, V1 and V2 cover

Hero dealt T T UTG raises to 30, folds to V1 (3300) who makes it 95

CO (1400) and button (4k) flat, V2 (covers all) makes it 425 from the SB and the BB folds

This is a pretty trivial fold...

Yeah obviously V2 may realize this is a cool spot for a lighter cold 4b. However, our hands are tied and we don't get to do anything but fold TT in this spot.

How is this hard? Just fold bruh. Are you sometimes folding the best hand? Of course. But this is not a time to pick TT and just stack off 250bb.

What? Why are we folding? we should be snap shoving 1010 here given the action. We have a top 5% hand and SB can be making a move with A2s-A5s because it looks so strong to cold 4b a 3-bet vs an UTG open.

In addition to the killer on our left making a super strong 4b, we still have 3 players left to act, each of whom either 3-bet or cold-called a 3-bet.

Unless all of the Villains are spazzing in unison, I'm thinking that TT is smoked here.

I think a fold is in order here. The supposed best player on the table just 4bet from sb, with three others behind him. calling here would be really bad i think, so you're either folding or shoving the remainder of your 2500.

Fold, ainec.

I don't know how someone who can 3bet/b/b/b with anything from soup to nuts and choose that 4bet sizing to be the best player in the room (especially if you can't remember any of his showdowns) but it's still a fold with a med PP, a strong UTG opening range and already a 3bet against that range.

This is actually the first thing that struck me. The sizing is awkward. Also, villain is looking down the table away from me as if im.not even in the hand.

V1s sizing is wired too. He usually goes 105 and I read this sizing as weak

Also, there is no reason to totally respect my raises. Im a weekend player and all the regs know i have some crap hands in my opening range 250bb deep. I actually have a better hand than expected here

Not saying this isn't still a fold but the sizing from both players feels fishy.

Seems like one of the easiest decisions you'll make all day. Just fold.

I'm folding this 100% of the time.

If you put in a big 5! could you get KK to fold here?

What do you think is the best 4bet sizing here? I see the cold 4bet over two 3bet cold callers is already super strong, IMO, the sizing is not bad.

I felt the sizing was a tell as to the type of hand he had. I was thinking he would raise slightly less or slightly more with a big hand. This sizing seems non committal to me but in the "I prefer if you fold" sizing

Results:

Hero raises to 1200, folds to villain who tank shoves, hero snap calls and his TT holds vs AKs

Honestly I just wanted to see if anyone plays it the same. it's a big move but I was confident villain wanted folds. Also, if another player in the hand is holding JJ or QQ I'm sure this would get them to fold. Mathematically speaking TT is slightly ahead of a hyper aggressive raising range and i suppose i went with what i thought was a bet sizing tell. It's hyper thin but in a game of reg vs reg wars I was happy with showing down this weak for a stack and a slight overlay. I can't let this v run me over

TT raise reraise then shove for $2500 with only $35 committed? At best I am 50/50. At worst 20/80.

I really think this should have been posted in the Med-High Stakes forum.

While the level of thinking improves going from 1/2 to 2/5, overall they play pretty similar and the same players can win at both.

I feel like 5/10 is another animal. I am a winning 1/2 player and do not feel comfortable analyzing play at these stakes. I've sweated enough of my friends sessions at 5/10 to know theres a huge difference. With that being said, I feel like a lot of advice here can be discounted because some of the posters have not even played these stakes.

You don’t have to be in these stakes to know that vs a 6b shove 250bb deep 1010 is crushed to the ground

not a whole lot of posting over there and i've noticed the quality of posting in this forum picking up a lot over the years

5/10 is another animal in that people just aren't folding their direct odds almost ever, you will see a lot more showdowns with people holding hands like Q8s when defending the BB, also, this particular game is deep, reg-filled, and hard to get into, it's not unusual to wait 3 hours to get a seat, so when I do get one I don't want to miss the opportunity to fight for a big stack and get settled in

the thing that I think a 1/2 player can learn from this is that TT under the gun can be used effectively as a 4bet hand because it's the first hand that is mathematically ahead of the entire deck from that position. if they are showing you a bit of weakness you should be able to 4b for a very good profit esp if you can force them to fold JJ and QQ which they will do at that level

before i showed my cards everyone thought i was going to flip over KK so if you are forcing them to fold JJ or QQ but call with AK it's a huge huge profit

I would study up on pre flop math because no one can break the math no matter how good they are

So you made this post as a brag to disprove the haters and educate everyone?

Sorry but this isn't what a 1/2 player needs to learn from this with 3bb committed 250bb deep fighting for a flip.

No i made the post to see if anyone would play it the same and happily they don't

if i was making a poker room i would allow up to 300bb buy ins...it's about that point where you do not need to alter your play based on your chip stack. even at 250bb my stack is too short to just call his raise and set mine, even if all the sizings where computer generated based on GTO math I wouldn't be able to flat at 250 bigs but at 300 all my options are in play. cash poker is meant to be 300 bigs deep, it's just an unfortunate occurrence that the parameters of cash poker were set by non poker players and stuck

you may proceed now with your forum

I'm instafolding JJ/AQs here, even if the entire table are LAGs.

I'd lean towards folding QQ and AK in this spot too. Your UTG opening range is so strong that when someone 3bets you, their range should already be narrowed down to pretty strong hands like {TT+, AQ+}. By the time it gets to the cold 4bettor, either he's making a move with some AXs hand (unlikely but possible), or he has a super premium in the {QQ+, AK} range.

Since our TT performs so incredibly poorly against a range of {QQ+, AK}, it should be an easy fold.