open pf is good then we need to fold to the 3bet.

Equity doesn't work like that. We aren't all in. You can't just take the raw equity vs 3 other ranges.

True, we can’t just take raw equity.

We’re OOP with a capped range so we’re gonna under realize vs the TAG.

But then we’re IP vs 2 whales. So against these 2 were certainly going to over realize.

Add it all up?

I think the EV gained from playing with 2 whales outweighs the EV lost by playing OOP dominated by the TAG

the problem is the TAG has you covered, so you are handcuffed

The other problem is second-best hands don’t count. Flopping a hand that can extract value from the whales is not good enough because the TAG can still beat you. So the idea of summing under-realization and over-realization makes no sense. You are going to under-realize against the field because the TAG is in it, and there is no adequate compensation.

Fold to the 3bet is the right play. The whales don't matter nearly as much as the pfr does. KTs is one of the worst hands to have here pf tbh. But a couple posters said to fold PF initially which is lol. Not only is this a mandatory open in any 6 handed game it's a mandatory open in any full ring game. As played, not folding.

No because low SPR + TAG is IP + has you covered.

OP thanks for posting this.

its a good example of when we want to get involved with action because we have a whale or 2 at our table how we sometimes try to rationalize our play when a TAG or A nit wakes up and gets involved.

these extra players and the style ;IE hand selection they come in with can't be taken lightly just because we have a thirst for whale meat

As far a pre-flop, opening is fine, and once the whales come along, no way am I folding. I don't think KTs is a fabulous hand vs. CO alone, but with $330 in the pot and $70 for me to call closing the action it's a no brainer.

On flop, if H shoves, what hands is V continuing with on this board? He must think he's toast unless he flopped the nut flush draw, which is unlikely (AsQs?) and he still might fold it, or a set of Js.

He did bet pretty big into three players, but who knows what that means? OP?

I think we do have FE and we should use it and ride the variance train vs. the whale.

Interesting to me re. folding to the 3bet - didn't really think it was close at all but having read the comments I guess I was just badly under-estimating the RIO here.
Re. realizing equity - with the two whales in the pot and low SPR the TAG has to play pretty straightforward, he can't just egregiously blast off with A high on a K high board for example. Likewise if one of the whales leads the flop and you call, the TAG is only going to raise with the goods.
I still think I'd be calling the 3bet, and post flop respecting the TAGs bets and dis-respecting the whales bets.

Result:

We Jam All In.

CO calls with black AA

And SB has JTo

We bink a Q ball and scoop :P

This is a really good point

Good hand and great thread. Lots of good points. Opening KTs is definitely reasonable in a 6-handed game especially if the CO and button are tight and do not defend or 3-bet often enough. And calling the 3-bet is a must with two whales contributing dead money to the pot improving not only your current pot odds but also improving your implied odds. Calling 70 into a pot of 330 is a no brainer, especially if your Villain is only 3-betting with the top of their range. That actually makes them easier to play against out of position.

I think you played it correctly. Given the flop, you had great equity even against the exact hand you feared. You had 14 outs against AA and 17 outs against TJ. You had exactly 50% equity against AA. You were getting almost 2:1 on your shove and your shove definitely had some fold equity against some of the CO range.

Actually be glad the CO did not have QQ. I think the CO has an even easier call with QQ because they block many of the possible straight draws. Anyway it ended the way it should have.

I am surprised CO called with the As in his hand. That makes your jam less likely to be a spade draw (or it should) and more likely to be two pair+. Glad he called and you binked. I like it.

And SB's less likely to be a spade draw as well. Seems like As is worst card to have as CO. Qs bad too but way more combos of AsX jamming for bluff.

Nice scoop.

Run hot cures all.

Calling the 3! with these clowns in the mix, folding if it’s HU. Getting it in there and loving it. You won’t get paid if you hit otherwise and you have so much equity against co’s range unless he has exactly AQss.

Almost nobody seems to understand being multiway is worse for us here. This is one of the absolute worst spots to call a 3bet. OOP to 3bettor vs. a dominating range and multiway.

Probably not as bad as you think when you put in some garbage ranges from the whales. We probably are getting decent odds actually, even for just a flop. Just know how your hand fares against the TAG when you reevaluate postflop since he has you covered. Nice thing is you don’t mind stacking off on ss+ flops because the likelihood the TAG dominates your flush draw is pretty low assuming he doesn’t 3! AQs against a UTG open. And I think we’re all a lot more content riding the variance train against the whales.

Best hand wins, sweet justice!

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 9hJs7s
Equity Win Tie
MP2 46.90% 41.52% 5.37% { KsTs }
MP3 38.43% 38.20% 0.22% { AsAc }
CO 14.68% 9.30% 5.37% { JTo }

Here's a question OP, what is your shoving range in this spot and is CO making a mistake by calling with AA? I don't think he has a lot of equity if you're only shoving big draws and sets.

Late to the party, but if we arent happily shipping in our money on this flop we have no business calling the 3 bet pre.

Also agree that i am pretty much autofolding to the 3 bet pre if its heads up against 3 bettor, but with two whales coming along i think it gets kind of close. Probably weighting towards calling.

find it hard to believe those advocating for a fold have ever played live poker, or at least ever played in a game similar to the one OP is in here.

wp post - and nice bink

I like the way you played it. Congrats on the hot bink. I think an interesting discussion is what do we do with AsAx in our TAG opponent's shoes? Do we c-bet that ultra wet flop or check back? As played with the huge c-bet size, are we committed to calling it off getting such a great price, or is our equity too low given the fact that your range should include all sets and just a handful of strong combo draws?

If our opponents shovingrange really is indeed well constructed and isnt out of line i think we may have to bet/fold AA here with the As in our hand. That being said, i think many live players actual shovingrange here is too wide and consisting of too many draws for us to fold. For example i think many players will check-shove all of their flushdraw combos in this spot.

So after thinking about if for a while i think a bet/stackoff with AA here is reasonable from villain.

By considering both blinds (whales) are relatively short stacks, is AsAx betting flop multiway using a large size optimal?

I can see if heads up, lower frequency larger size on this flop is preferred, but not sure about multiway pot.