5/10
6 handed.
Hero (1600) opens UTG KTss to 30.
CO TAG reg (1600) 3bets to 100.
SB whale cold calls (700)
BB whale calls. (600)
hero calls.
4 way
(400) J97shs
X x x CO bets 330 SB jams 600. Hero?

Kinda interesting since if we flat here it does close the action. We could jam? (And we certainly have enough equity to get it unhappy) but we don’t really benefit from isolating SB. We need to hit to win anyways so we wanna keep everyone in right? But jamming means that if we fold out CO and miss then we only lose 600 more rather than the full 1500 so it’s kinda interesting. Also jamming let’s us play our range better since we can play with way with all the sets.
I never really considered folding but maybe someone could make that argument idk.

I think it’s a jam, V will be getting like 3:1 on a call so I don’t think there’s a huge risk of folding him out. I do think flatting is sorta sexy but it feels a little FPS. As you note it’s a little odd with a protected side pot. I do believe that V folding is slightly better EV as your side pot is basically even money for a 40 something % draw whereas the main pot is clearly already +EV. The more I think about it I like the shove and FE is your friend. Not that a call from V is terrible.

Is folding to the preflop 3-bet ever a viable option?

Not closing the action 4 ways, for me it’s not.

I don’t think so when I’m closing the action and have relative position on the pfr and 2 whales in the pot.

Opening with KTs UTG was probably a small mistake but good to mix it up some especially when playing deep stacks, so it is reasonable. Calling the 3-bet would likely be a small mistake if it was just heads up against the CO. You would be putting 6.5% of your stack in out of position against a strong hand that could also have a wider range of small cards to trap you. However, now it is only 70 more for you to call and the pot will be 400. You have to call. Shoving is clearly superior. You have 15 outs against AA and 12 outs against T8 and 13 outs against a set. If you call the CO will certainly be priced in, but can still fold when any scare cards come on the turn or river. If you miss and check the turn, he can then put you all in with his top pair hands. If the CO has AA or QQ he may fold to an all in shove on the flop. If he has a set or two pair or straight, he will put us all in anyway. The extra money he will contribute to the main pot will not make up for the extra we loose when we miss the turn and we have to call his all in turn bet. And he could back door a larger straight if he has AQ, KQ, or QT. Definitely better to shove and make him/her call or fold his weaker holdings which still have some equity.

Did you consider leading the flop instead of checking first?

I think I only like checking if the plan is to check/jam vs CO

SB is just juicing the odds for us

So as played, stick to the plan

If nobody has a set or the NFD, we're in fantastic shape

I prefer a flat and bring in the CO TAG. When you think about it there is no way to win without making a hand. The only advantage to folding out the CO is that it might, maybe give us a K as well as an out some percentage of the time.

If we have to make the hand to win, I'd rather have that extra $$'s in the pot when I do so. Definitely, never folding but playing turn as a check if we miss, obviously calling any sizing as we will have odds to call for river.

TBH, I'm not sure that it makes a huge difference either way you play this, as long as you don't fold.

+1

Donk flop

Fold.

You're up against someone who showed aggression preflop and is TAG, a person who has called that aggression and has straigths and sets in their range. Whale is raising knowing he'll be called so he's got a hand.

You've got a marginal hand, which is likely beat if you hit.

Betting $1500 to win $3800 when you're probably 20% or less to win.

.2 * $3800 = $720

The value of your bet here is negative. You'd have to be 40% to win for the bet to even break even.

Jam. I think we are pretty happy to get in and maybe promote some outs such as king vs random 1p hands and worse flush draws.

20% seems too low to me. How did u get 20%?

Whales range is probably wider than you give him credit for. He could be on a pretty weak draw. I don’t think folding is the right play. Depends on how much FE you have with CO. If you have enough FE then I think jamming is right.

Flat calling the whale's shove is not a good option. Yes you most likely have to improve to win against the CO but not necessarily against the fish. He could be shoving with a smaller flush draw. Furthermore, the CO could have a small or middle pair that missed. He may have made a c-bet because everyone folded to him. Your check-shove after the CO bet and the blind shoves will indicate a lot of strength and should be able to get the CO to fold some better hands including AA. By forcing out the CO we cut our loss in half when we miss. If we flat and let him call, our pot equity goes down and we risk loosing another 1,000 when we miss. Risking 1,000 to win an extra 600 from the CO is not a profitable play.

As far as leading into CO on the flop, I wouldn't do that with two fish behind us who we can squeeze when the CO bets and they call. I would almost always play less aggressive here to keep in the fish. We can even play slow and get great pot odds in a four-way pot and save money when we miss, leaving a jam as a second option.

I explained it in my post a little. The TAG has a hand based on betting. The whale has made a raise that will obviously be called so he's got a hand as well. When you look at the 3 way calculators on it, he's at that percentage on average.

It's a losing bet unless he's over 40% to win.

You realize we have a double gutter and fd?

I would jam. Getting co to fold could clean up some outs and if he calls we get the full double when we hit.

Could u please post a pic of the equity calc?
(And/or cite your work)

I’m more curious in the method by which u reached the conclusion than the conclusion itself

Grunch

This is tough spot. Nice that the all in isn't a full raise so your only choice is to call or fold. With the double gutter and flush draw I think you can pay to see the turn.

If it was a bit more and action was reopened you have little incentive to jam now because you need to improve to win and I don't think jamming to protect your sets is as valuable as calling the flop and waiting for a safe turn to raise because you'll have a few draws on this flop and calling your sets will help protect that range. Brick turns you get to check raise your sets vs pocket pairs that get away cheap on flop and flush or straight making turns you get paid.

6-handed I think KTs UTG open and defend heads up are standard.

The other option would be to go all in which is a pretty reasonable play imo.

I think shoving is +EV and calling is also +EV I’m just not sure which is higher EV

You can go all in when the previous all in wasn't a full raise thus not "reopening the action"?

That's why I said all in wasn't an option but if it was then I'd still opt to flat because I think you benefit more from merging into a flat range than giving the pfr an easy decision to fold most his stuff because the turn with change a lot.

Yes. I can go all in.
But if I flat call, CO will not be allowed to go all in.

Yes but in this case we could reJam AJ to knock the CO off an over pair and isolate with the whale.

Maybe jam sets, combo draws, NFD and enough fractional AJ to make CO indifferent with KK?

(Here we can’t pure bluff since we’re going to show down with SB so we can treat AJ as our bluff vs CO and our bluff catcher vs SB??)