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5/10 with bottom set 5/10 with bottom set

09-29-2018 , 09:27 AM
Main villain is a pro. Fairly solid but does get out of line sometimes. I do notice that his value bets tend to get quite big so I always wonder how much he actually bluffs.

Hero is UTG with 55

V1 calls from UTG1, folds around to the small blind who calls, BB folds

(100)

Q53

check, hero bets 60, v2 calls, SB folds

(220)

A

Hero checks, villain bets 175, hero makes it 400, villain calls

A

Hero?

Last edited by KT_Purple; 09-29-2018 at 09:28 AM. Reason: actually I had middle set
5/10 with bottom set Quote
09-29-2018 , 09:49 AM
Effective stacks? There are 2 5h in the deck?
You have middle set.

Only comment I can give is that you should raise turn bigger. 550-650 but idk since you didn't post effective stacks.

Shove river? still no info on stack sizes. I dont think villain will be bluffing too much on this runout with his airballs after you min-raise him OTT.

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09-29-2018 , 09:54 AM
Preflop: This is slightly loose, we don't normally open 55 UTG in a full-ring table, but it's not terrible.

Flop: Well played.

Turn: This x/r is way too small. Either barrel like $160 yourself or x/r to a more standard size like $520.

River: I really need to know stack sizes to make a decision. If you started the hand with only $1k then this is a fistpump jam, but if you started with $2k+ then you probably want to bet/fold like $700.
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09-29-2018 , 04:02 PM
Sorry...I raised to 30, effective stacks are 3500, he covers
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09-29-2018 , 04:24 PM
This is an interesting hand, since both players' ranges are fairly narrow, with Villain's more so than Hero's.

Villain: AK/AQ...difficult to think of more hands he'd play like this.

Hero: AK/AQ, QQ, maybe some AJ/AT that c-bet the flop...his 55 is fairly well hidden.

I'm thinking it comes down to how much will Villain bet if checked to...and is there any chance he would check behind with AK?

OTOH, if we bet a goodly amount on the river, is there any chance he would spazz out and raise AK, if only to try to get another AK to fold?
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09-29-2018 , 04:41 PM
Lead turn. If you x/r, make it 550+.

AP, check river.
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09-29-2018 , 05:11 PM
Xc or b/f seem best, and we can consider 'blocking bet sizing' when we lead

Villains range is uncapped while heros is not so it's a tricky spot to extract value.
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09-29-2018 , 05:42 PM
I actually like your sizing on the turn. Keeps weak As in. Now X/ call any river bet..
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09-29-2018 , 08:42 PM
It go close to a PSB OTR. Maxes value from value calling hands and potentially looks suspect and might induce (calling in that case).
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09-30-2018 , 03:00 AM
Hand should be a pretty straightforward b/b/b 3-barrel imo.

Not sure why you are x/r'ing turn...? if you were trying to induce you got it but then you raise to fold out all his bluffs/airballs.

River is definitely a check, he has a ton of AQ here. At least if you check you'll occasionally get some weird hand to spaz out. Kind of strange hand since your min x/r ott makes ranges super whacky.
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09-30-2018 , 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
... Kind of strange hand since your min x/r ott makes ranges super whacky....
I know. That is what makes this hand interesting.
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09-30-2018 , 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitcherroo
It go close to a PSB OTR. Maxes value from value calling hands and potentially looks suspect and might induce (calling in that case).
I'm sorry, but this is hilarious. A pot sized bet on the river looks suspect and might induce? How do you come up with stuff like this?
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09-30-2018 , 11:33 AM
400 on the turn is a bit cheesy I agree. I can't imagine any bluffs I have there. Maybe the odd getting out of line with 46s but seems way too fancy and high risk. 550 makes it an easier bluff with a Broadway gutter. Puts a lot of pressure on him. With this sizing I'd have to over bet river and doesn't seem worth it. Pot was smallish before that raise came in

Hero checks, v bets 800

Last edited by KT_Purple; 09-30-2018 at 11:38 AM.
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09-30-2018 , 01:01 PM
Are you gonna tell us stacks sizes or what? Is 800 a jam?
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09-30-2018 , 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KT_Purple
Sorry...I raised to 30, effective stacks are 3500, he covers
Quote:
Originally Posted by setintostraight
Are you gonna tell us stacks sizes or what? Is 800 a jam?
Nice check. Now call.
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09-30-2018 , 02:34 PM
Yeah, easy call river.
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09-30-2018 , 07:45 PM
Wouldn't AK/AQ from villain raise pre? I'm a little confused on the pre-action. Did we open and get flatted?

Agree with turn size too small. Also agree with "should have posted stack sizes" $3500 effective?

My vote is X/Call>X/Jam>>>>>>>>>>>>X/Fold

X/Call and X/Jam is really close imo because of the no 3bet pre from the pro.
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09-30-2018 , 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havick
Wouldn't AK/AQ from villain raise pre? I'm a little confused on the pre-action. Did we open and get flatted?
Although flatting next in with AK/AQ seems a bit funky, I really can't see any other hands that Villain could have that also play the flop and turn the same way...except possibly 33 and QQ
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09-30-2018 , 09:30 PM
Why not bet turn since this is a good turn to bet as a bluff and V knows this is a good turn to bet since he's a pro? Is your 5/10 game very float happy? At any rate the sizing is odd but that might be to your advantage since you look like you're button clicking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Hand should be a pretty straightforward b/b/b 3-barrel imo.

Not sure why you are x/r'ing turn...? if you were trying to induce you got it but then you raise to fold out all his bluffs/airballs.

River is definitely a check, he has a ton of AQ here. At least if you check you'll occasionally get some weird hand to spaz out. Kind of strange hand since your min x/r ott makes ranges super whacky.
I agree with first bolded, you remove no cards for V to have and you can have plenty of bluffs.

On second bolded, does he really have that many AQ here compared to other Ax that floated flop? What about Qx that didn't believe the wonky c/r, or 33? Hard to have A5s and A3s since turn is rainbow but possible. I admit I am also confused what to do on the river, but I would hate if he checked Qx behind, maybe we should overbet because we look so silly like we have an airball and if he had Qx he would block nut full house?
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10-01-2018 , 08:45 AM
I think villain 3bets AK close to 100% of the time, and probably not flatting ace rag to a UTG raise too often. That's bad news for me since it eliminates hands I beat. I feel like he has AQ exactly at least 80% of the time and I said as much while tanking
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10-01-2018 , 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdelore
On second bolded, does he really have that many AQ here compared to other Ax that floated flop? What about Qx that didn't believe the wonky c/r, or 33? Hard to have A5s and A3s since turn is rainbow but possible. I admit I am also confused what to do on the river, but I would hate if he checked Qx behind, maybe we should overbet because we look so silly like we have an airball and if he had Qx he would block nut full house?
How much AJ- is villain flatting in UTG vs UTG+1, floating the flop out of relative position 3-way, b/c'ing the turn, and then calling a river bet with?

Why would you hate it if he checked Qx behind? Even if an ace didn't come and the action just went b / b / b, we'd be lucky to get him to call down with KQ, much less on this board and action.

5/T pros suck and all, but damn.
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10-01-2018 , 10:28 AM
He is actually one of the 5/10 pros that doesn't suck.

I don't think either of us have any bluffs at this point in the hand. The turn completed the rainbow. Villain doesn't seem like he ever has 46 inhis range pre, and check his turn sizing. He bets high in relation to pot. It's very hard to have high bluff frequencies when you bet >80% of pot most of the time.

Also, this hand is innocuous on the flop, no good reason to float. Its almost always an irrelevant hand
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10-01-2018 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiseAnnounced
How much AJ- is villain flatting in UTG vs UTG+1, floating the flop out of relative position 3-way, b/c'ing the turn, and then calling a river bet with?

Why would you hate it if he checked Qx behind? Even if an ace didn't come and the action just went b / b / b, we'd be lucky to get him to call down with KQ, much less on this board and action.

5/T pros suck and all, but damn.
1. I don't know, that's why I asked if the game was float happy which would have been a good reason for us to check the set on the turn. Against this line he might indeed bet/call the turn with an ace to what's basically a min c/r. I know in my game I am called on the flop with weak hands and floats all the time so I tend to barrel a lot with equity hands or c/r turn to punish that. Floating dry boards happens more than you think imo.

2. Because we want to value bet against a queen on the river obv.

3. Then overbluff for three barrels if they'll fold KQ so much.
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10-01-2018 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KT_Purple
He is actually one of the 5/10 pros that doesn't suck.
I'll believe it when I see it.

Flippancy aside, for as questionable as 5/T pros can be, stationing off 4 bets in EPvsEP multiway pots doesn't really fit the billing.

If they're going to do bad floating shenanigans, it's more likely to be by bombing the river with 76s or turn Qx into a bluff when we check to them OTR because they think your turn raise is FOS. Now THAT's the sort of 5/T spew I've come to know and love.
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10-01-2018 , 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdelore
1. I don't know, that's why I asked if the game was float happy which would have been a good reason for us to check the set on the turn. Against this line he might indeed bet/call the turn with an ace to what's basically a min c/r. I know in my game I am called on the flop with weak hands and floats all the time so I tend to barrel a lot with equity hands or c/r turn to punish that. Floating dry boards happens more than you think imo.
My post above addresses this. I should be clear that vbetting low boat here to get value from random Ax that shows up here isn't bad. It was more particulars about your reasoning I thought were off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdelore
2. Because we want to value bet against a queen on the river obv.
We can't reasonably expect to get value from Qx on the river. That'd be a straight money torch from villain. If he's going to put money in on the river with Qx, it's slightly more likely he turns it into a bluff with a big bet. I don't think either is likely though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdelore
3. Then overbluff for three barrels if they'll fold KQ so much.
Q53r is a dream board to triple barrel as an EP opener for exactly this reason. Anyway, it's hard to overbluff on this runout unless you're turning middle strength hands into bluffs.
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