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12-12-2015 , 07:41 PM
Game is FR 1/2 300 cap. I bought in for $300, but have lost a few pots and am down to $204. Villain is UTG w/ a straddle, and is probably the biggest winning reg in the casino from what I've observed. 30 yrs old, will play higher stakes, and just a player I try to avoid at all costs. Probably views me as weak-tight at this point due to a terri-bad nit fold I made earlier. Effective Stacks are right around 200.

UTG +1: Fold
UTG +2: Call
MP1: Call
MP2 (Hero): Raise 18 w/ AK
HJ: Fold
CO: Fold
BTN: Fold
SB: Fold
BB: Fold
UTG: Call
UTG2 & MP1: Fold

(Pot = $46)
Flop AK 3
UTG: Check
Hero: Bet $35
UTG: Call

(Pot = $115)
Turn: 9
UTG: Leads for $55
Hero: Call

(Pot = $226)
Turn: 2
UTG: All-in ($95 to me)
Hero: Fold

I guess I called the turn, because I thought he would make a move on that card at a high frequency especially given my perceived image, and even if he has the flush I still have a tiny bit of boat equity. I was also imagining him checking the river, but I'm not sure if that was good in the moment (see below). So is calling to fold to a river bet bad here? Lastly, I think my hand is pretty face up when I call his turn bet, and I realize now I was giving off some strong indications I was worried about his play.

The more I thought about it, I'm not sure this good aggro-player will ever not go all-in OTR unless it is a King/Ace, which makes the turn call pretty bad (right???).

Anyways, what do you guys do in this spot? Maybe I am too weak-tight .
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12-12-2015 , 07:44 PM
Shove turn...call river as played...he prob had a high heart like KxQh...also could have a lot of two pair hands etc...tbh your thinking is pretty weak-tight it's hard to make a flush heads up and if he did make the flush why would he lead into you on a board that you are barreling often? Also bet more pre-20-25 IMO

Last edited by kimoser22; 12-12-2015 at 07:51 PM.
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12-13-2015 , 10:11 AM
Don't bet more pre. Maybe your game plays differently, but 18 seems like a lot pre and I would imagine you raise less with weaker holdings. If anything, I think it turns your hand face up. As played, folding the river seems terrible. Nothing has really changed since the turn and it's less than a 1/2 pot bet...
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12-13-2015 , 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimoser22
Shove turn...call river as played...he prob had a high heart like KxQh...also could have a lot of two pair hands etc...tbh your thinking is pretty weak-tight it's hard to make a flush heads up and if he did make the flush why would he lead into you on a board that you are barreling often? Also bet more pre-20-25 IMO
i agree completely next best line is c/c down but to fold on the most bricked river ever is def. a mistake
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12-13-2015 , 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aftrglw
Don't bet more pre. Maybe your game plays differently, but 18 seems like a lot pre and I would imagine you raise less with weaker holdings. If anything, I think it turns your hand face up. As played, folding the river seems terrible. Nothing has really changed since the turn and it's less than a 1/2 pot bet...
It doesn't matter what "seems like a lot" generally everytime you raise you want 1-2 callers so while its almost impossible to tell from one hand, if you are getting this many callers per hand, you SHOULD experiment with bigger raises. Also you should keep raises the same regardless of the cards in your hand. raises shoud be more in line with the table dynamics.
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12-13-2015 , 01:19 PM
I don't see how you can't call. Would Villain call a healthy raise with QJ h or smaller suited hearts? I don't think so, if he is indeed a very good player.
So we can put V on another A, K, or A,x suited or not. Perhaps K, Q c or s, suited or not. I really do not see him playing A, 9, 22, or 33 to a large raise.

I think he felt you would be uncomfortable with his rep, and felt he could bully you off the pot.
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12-13-2015 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcePaint
It doesn't matter what "seems like a lot" generally everytime you raise you want 1-2 callers so while its almost impossible to tell from one hand, if you are getting this many callers per hand, you SHOULD experiment with bigger raises. Also you should keep raises the same regardless of the cards in your hand. raises shoud be more in line with the table dynamics.
This is almost all wrong. No, you don't always want 1-2 callers. Sometimes you want 0, sometimes 1-2, and sometimes more.

Your last two lines contradict each other. Raises should consider table dynamics and V tendencies, they should not be the same regardless of cards. And because raises should consider table dynamics I think raising to 18 is wrong. This is a much bigger pf raise than normal in most LLSNL games I've played in and narrows your range considerably, which was precisely my point.
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12-13-2015 , 01:46 PM
Shove the turn. SPR of 4 on the flop. You're fully committed with top two. Qh hands might make a mistake and call 3:1.
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12-13-2015 , 02:01 PM
At least we all concur that this hand was played terribly

As for my open raise size, I think the bigger sizing is better. With a player I recognize as better than me in the straddle position, and who I expect to call super-wide to outplay me - I'm trying to dissuade him from joining in. Also, the OOP limpers had been calling super-wide and one was a station, and the other was c/f most flops. Given this dynamic, the bigger sizing should make straddle bro fold somewhat frequently, while still getting the action-junky fun-players to call.
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12-13-2015 , 02:58 PM
pot committed after the cbet otf. gii.

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12-13-2015 , 05:19 PM
huh?

turn is an instafold. solid player is solid player.

as played, call river.
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12-13-2015 , 05:50 PM
You don't "always" want exactly 1-2 callers. In fact, with AKsuited I'm content with anywhere from 1-9 callers. Postflop will be played accordingly.

In regards to this hand, if villian is one of the best regs in the game, that $55 into a $115 pot when the 3rd heart comes is polarizing his hand. He's either trying to not scare you off or he is trying to scare you off cheap. Shove or fold now is largely dependent on your stack unless you have a VERY good LOLLive Tell on him. With what you have left at this point folding would be a marginal error. GII.
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12-13-2015 , 05:56 PM
against anybody competent, theres no chance youre good
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12-13-2015 , 06:00 PM
You folks don't think a competent player bets the scare card? That heart is one of the biggest scare cards in the deck.
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12-13-2015 , 06:23 PM
^ +1. competent player playing down in stakes that views you as weak tight? He def reps flush here as air HU in a hand where H made such a massive bet pre. Question is is he competent enough to see that AK flop likely means hero flopped a set/2pair more often than a Kx or underpair (JJ). Call turn is fine if our plan is gii. Hollywood shoving turn is fine too IMO. Next time dont make it so much pre.

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12-13-2015 , 06:30 PM
^^^^
pre isnt too big, it's too small
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12-13-2015 , 06:43 PM
^^^^

no, it's too big.

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12-13-2015 , 07:03 PM
It seems to be a straddled pot, mind you.
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12-13-2015 , 07:31 PM
Pre is fine if it gets callers in a weak game. I'm going to bet more with good hands if a bunch of stations are going to call me down holding any TP hand.

As played and given dynamic I call turn and river. Sucks if he hit the flush but he should be bluffing sometimes. Second best is fold turn, this is ridic weak-tight though but you can't call turn and fold river.
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12-14-2015 , 12:43 AM
turn is probably a fold. there just isn't very much else he can have but a flush...

i'd have to have seen evidence the guy floats a ton to see merit in continuing
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12-14-2015 , 11:12 AM
Preflop raise size is fine. It's a straddled pot w/ two limpers and 6 more people to go behind me. I don't raise the same amount every time, it all depends who's at the table, my position, stack sizes, etc.

This idea that you need to keep your raise size constant or to some rule like 3.5x + 1BB per limper to disguise your hand is total bs for live LLSNL. I focus on playing pots with the rec players. Maybe the 1/2 2/5 games are tougher where you guys are from, but if I got droolers in my game I'll do all kinds of exploitative stuff to focus on them.
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12-14-2015 , 01:27 PM
Pre is fine. It's a straddled hand that's only 4.5bb.
After that flop, we should never ever be folding, only question, how to get it in.

Shoving turn or as played calling river.

No way a "comptent" V shows up here with any flush other than QJ, even then, calling 10% of eff stacks pre w/ that hand out of position is sketchy. There's just sooo much more pair+Qh or air betting the scare card at the kiddie table than the 1-2 combos of a flush.

Unless UTG+1/UTG+2 and V are all insanely deep and one of UTG+1/2 is such a donk that V is ignoring you to get at them with some IO hand like 78h.
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12-14-2015 , 10:16 PM
oops missed straddle. . pre is fine

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12-15-2015 , 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aftrglw
This is almost all wrong. No, you don't always want 1-2 callers. Sometimes you want 0, sometimes 1-2, and sometimes more.

Your last two lines contradict each other. Raises should consider table dynamics and V tendencies, they should not be the same regardless of cards. And because raises should consider table dynamics I think raising to 18 is wrong. This is a much bigger pf raise than normal in most LLSNL games I've played in and narrows your range considerably, which was precisely my point.
Hmmm i think you raised an interesting question. In a game where you can assume most people aren't paying attention to betting sizes maybe raises should be more in line with table dynamics. maybe not 100% because i believe raising the same pf disguises your range against thinking players. what does eveyone think? imo after reading some more; in really fishy games like 1/2 1/3 raises should be going off table dynamics but in tougher games there is added value in disguising your range. i dont think its ever 100% one way or the other though.
P.S. constructive critism is the best feedback
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