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Old 03-18-2018, 12:37 PM   #1
hyperknit
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4b JJ in CO

2-5 effective 500. 9 handed.
Hero CO JJhd raise to 15, BUT reg 3bet to 50, Hero reraise to 110. Call.
(227) Flop Q74hhx
Check check.
(227) Turn 8h.
Check, Villain bets 150, call.
(527) Riv Ac.
Check, Villain bets ALL IN. Hero folds.

I donít have too much experience in 4b pots so not sure how to play this one.
I was thinking thereís merit to c/jam the turn.
Also maybe cbetting small on the flop could be good.
Any thoughts?


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Old 03-18-2018, 12:47 PM   #2
HawkesDave
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Re: 4b JJ in CO

4b pre followed by check on the flop is either super strong or super weak. I prefer a cbet here since the stacks are shallow enough going forward that you're going to be put in a gross spot at some point and I'm OK if V folds anything we're beating on the flop. You also have two hearts which can make a turn/river decision even more difficult. Any flop cbet here is a b/f. I'd make it like $125.

As far as the turn was concerned, assuming you checked the flop as you did, I think it's just a x/f or a x/r when the heart lands. I don't think you can rep much with a x/r jam here, though, so if you weren't willing to bet big as a lead then I think I'd just fold once I check and V bets.
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:51 PM   #3
Garick
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Re: 4b JJ in CO

Has V been 3-betting a lot of your opens? How have you reacted before? Why did you choose to 4-bet? Why that sizing?
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Old 03-18-2018, 01:07 PM   #4
PokerPrince
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Re: 4b JJ in CO

Any info on villain other than reg? Are you opening a lot/what's your table image? Are you folding to a 5b jam pre?
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:13 PM   #5
johnnyBuz
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Re: 4b JJ in CO

4! bigger and shove the flop.
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Old 03-18-2018, 03:55 PM   #6
hyperknit
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Re: 4b JJ in CO

Villain is just an aggressive solid reg. I was under the impression that 2.2x is standard 4b sizing here, but youíre not the first person to tell me to 4b larger here so maybe Iíll reevaluate.
I guess c bet the flip is probably the best, idk about 125, maybe 1/3 pot with my entire range is better


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Old 03-18-2018, 04:14 PM   #7
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Re: 4b JJ in CO

What are you trying to accomplish with your sizing? Villain is getting nearly 3:1 and is IP - he’s not folding anything he 3!’s with.

A larger sizing commits him on the flop. Now he’s forced to a tough decision with TT-88 whether you have enough AK in your range or not.

You go to $200 pre and this is just an easy flop shove.
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Old 03-18-2018, 05:14 PM   #8
hyperknit
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Re: 4b JJ in CO

Well I think the idea of 2.2x is to get him off A2-A5 bluffs, well he could call with them but then he knows I can have AK


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Old 03-18-2018, 05:32 PM   #9
Garick
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Re: 4b JJ in CO

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperknit View Post
Villain is just an aggressive solid reg. I was under the impression that 2.2x is standard 4b sizing here, but youíre not the first person to tell me to 4b larger here so maybe Iíll reevaluate.
I guess c bet the flip is probably the best, idk about 125, maybe 1/3 pot with my entire range is better
These sizings look like they are from tournament strat, where if someone gets felted they are out, so FE is much higher. For LLSNL, FE is rare, and sizing should go way up.
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Old 03-19-2018, 04:45 AM   #10
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Re: 4b JJ in CO

There's no such thing as a "standard 4bet sizing". Your sizing is a variable that depends on:
1. Stack sizes. Deeper stacks = larger sizing
2. Position. Being OOP = larger sizing.
3. Elasticity of villain. More inelastic villains = larger sizing.

In this particular case, I prefer to size up to about $130, since we're OOP and 100bbs deep. I'd like this sizing more if we were only ~$400 effective, but that's not the case here.

As played, I prefer to cbet small with my entire range here, something around 20-25% pot. So I'd bet $50.

As played, I'm definitely betting the turn once the flop checks through.

As played, I'm just going to x/jam the turn.

As played, I'm x/f river, as you did.
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Old 03-19-2018, 10:39 AM   #11
Playbig2000
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Re: 4b JJ in CO

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperknit View Post
Well I think the idea of 2.2x is to get him off A2-A5 bluffs, well he could call with them but then he knows I can have AK
Why would you wanna fold out his bluffs to begin with, since he's aggressive and if his range is polarized to include them? What is his 3bet range? Have you seen him 3bet before?

The reason I don't like 4betting is because I wouldn't be too thrilled to call when he 5bet jams. I would rather 4bet with hands I would either snap fold to a 5bet or be happy to gii pre. Calling keeps our range wide so he can continue otf with his whole range.

Why didn't you cbet? I hate that he got there with AK
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Old 03-19-2018, 11:17 AM   #12
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Re: 4b JJ in CO

This whole thread seems a bit FPSy to me. We got tricksy with our PF 4! size and that made our stack awkward the rest of the way. Either 4! big enough so we can go either fold to 5! shove/go with it on almost any flop, or just call the 3! and play poker.
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Old 03-20-2018, 10:46 PM   #13
hyperknit
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Re: 4b JJ in CO

Iíve been under the impression that calling 3bets oop is a losing play.

Fwiw Iím snap calling a 5bet.

These comments have been very helpful. After reading what everyone has had to say I think I like making this same 4! Sizing but then betting 1/3 pot otf (with my entire range) and jamming clean turns (with JJ).


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