(Ok so thesis general question - and not sure if in the right forums)

Say you are at a table with a table with players you know(think) you have a huge edge on. (Full ring - not 6max)

You get a hand like QQ in SB and you are relatively deep. You say have $600 and the blinds are 1/3

Is it better to 3bet the $15 open raise vs a loose player (not a maniac but opens tons of hands 35%+)

or flat call, and why? (Assuming the pot with be 3 people or heads up.)

One thing to think about - this player does like to go crazy when he hits top pair in straddled pots even if it's like an 8.

He likes to bluff - and has tried to bluff hero a few times


Is it +ev to play this with out a 3bet? I've done it a few times to test it out and it has paid off vs maniacs who go absolutely nuts with top pair but they may of also done that in 3bet pot.

should QQ be 3bet in a full ring game like almost 100% of the time vs 35% opens with a deep stack?


I like to 3bet QQ+ more in position but this may be a small leak. I just have a hard time playing it OOP and want to keep the pot small in deep pots.

Against a player as described -- someone who opens 35% and will c bet almost every flop and will also go broke with one pair, regardless of rank post flop -- flat calling QQ from the blinds can be a great move.
Caveat: heads up only. If it's shaping up to be 3 way or more, you're probably better off 3!
Keep in mind: if you are HU against this specific player, flat calling might increase your variance because you're going to have to let V drive the action a bit post flop and you may not really 'know' where you're at. You might get stacked by some rogue two pair hands, and if an A or K flops, you'd have to adjust depending on situation.
But, in general, think of it this way: 3! PF and win $15 something close to 100% of the time or flat and win Vs stack something like 50% of the time. It becomes a math problem and the numbers depend on the V and stacks.
At 50bb eff, it probably doesn't matter how you play it. At 100bb, flat calling to play for stacks might be the better play. At 200bb, playing for stacks is interesting but potentially dangerous and you'll need to have good reads on V.

it depends. if hes calling with nearly all his range pre then im 3betting for value. i like to stick to JJ+ only in these spots. u build a pot and set a low spr to stack off. yes there are bad flops but live players either bluff wayyy too much or wayyy too little.

43% chance an over flops when u have qq. ill take that chance. if he goes broke with tp regardless post if u flat pre i guess it doesnt matter much if u flat. he will only flop two pairs+ 5% of time with unpaired suited cards so u kinda lose value by flatting

against a really good player i flat even aa OOP

Generally, the formula to beat aggressive players (particularly bad ones) is to check and call with your good hands, and let the villain take himself to valuetown. This works because it denies information to the aggressive player. By representing a wider range, you encourage him to bet more.

However, in this case, because you're so deep, you should definitely 3-bet. Villain my shut down and play the hand more ABC, resulting in a small win for you. But that's fine, you are out of position, and your 3-bet inflated the pot to give you additional value before the villain had a chance to fold. You really don't want to play one pair, OOP, with an SPR >20.

Furthermore, with stacks so deep, even if you 3-bet, you still have odds to set mine.

I find playing OOP to a bluffy player very difficult, and it sounds like you do to. If stacks were short enough where we could simply 3bet and then basically commit postflop on non-horrendous boards, we eliminate the disadvantage of being OOP / being bluffed off our hand (because we've committed ourselves). But he deeper we are, the more we can't commit / can be bluffed off our hand postflop, even with a 3bet.

My guess is at 200bbs we could probably 3bet to a size where we will be pretty happy committing postflop against this guy. Much deeper it might be a different story.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I didn't 3bet a lot at this game because most of my 3bets (3bet a $15 open to $40) were getting called multi way and I just didn't see a point of bloating a pot OOP even with a good hand when I could get most of the money in any ways on a favorable flop as half of these maniacs would chase a draw even with unfavorable odds.

I'm not sure if calling pre is the best move but it worked in my favor this time.

I'm going to have to experiment with it more but my sample size at live poker + being deep - just isn't very big.

if you can get it in anyway then reraising is pointless.

This really is not what SPR is for. It's actually a pretty good example of what it's not for. We're playing exploitatively here. This guy opens wide, overplays his hands, and bluffs. And he's apparently very bad. Why do we want to start 3betting him? So we can make rote commitment decisions on the flop? Why do we want to do that?

Well, we can still boil it down to SPR. Actually, if we flat, the SPR will be ~20, which is a pretty good SPR for an overpair as we can play it pretty passively. But, we will be OOP to an aggro player; even though the SPR is high enough where we won't have to commit stacks, he can still test us for a large portion of it with 3 big bets postflop (which will be difficult to call if A/K comes).

Gbut,still,flattingain'tbadwiththisSPR,imoG

3bet to $65 pre if he calls wide. if u flat its hard to win much from top pair this deep unless hes a complete idiot.

Of course he's going to test us sometimes. How exactly do you think we're making money here?

ya but i also go broke every time he outflops me and he is in position. 3betting to 65 is good and I like it but I think it is higher variance.

Look at how villain is described. We're making a fortune off top pair here.