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3Bet w/JJ vs LAG

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01-17-2018 , 07:21 PM

Scooo13zzz

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 408

Folds around to (V) in cutoff

(V) raises - $12.00
Villain has sat down for the past hour and has been very active and aggressive.
I have seen him showdown hands anywhere between A3off and Q6 suited

($240) Hero(SB)- J

3 bets to $40.00

BB folds

(V)-calls $40.00

Pot=$83.00

FLOP 6

Hero- cbets $50.00
(V) calls-$50.00

Pot=183.00

Hero has $150.00 behind going into turn

Turn- 3

Hero-?????

Thoughts on jamming or is check jamming better option???

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01-17-2018 , 07:29 PM

matzah_ball

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,726

Jam

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01-17-2018 , 07:36 PM

Nogyong

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,801

These spots dont matter too much. If he has something the chips are probably going in. If not, it wasn't meant to be and you were unlikely to get more money.

If you think he can float with air and he'll bet his entire range if checked to go ahead and check.

The standard play is to jam and let him pay you off with any pair higher than a 3. Villain is often going to put you on AK in this spot.

Either play is fine.

IMO, jamming is better for your image and will make it tougher for your opponents especially if you are tight with a high cbet frequency.

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01-17-2018 , 11:08 PM

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,237

Not the happiest situation in the world when villain doesn't fold flop but with this SPR you can't fold unless villain is a known nit. Mostly just move in.

There are a couple of specific moves for certain villains here but don't use them all the time. If villain will automatically bet if checked to in this situation then check/shove is good. If villain is stationary and will pay off with garbage to small bets then $75 on turn and river is good. If villain is very aggressive about raising then $50 works. It's particularly good here because even if he just flat calls the $50 you are still set to shove river.

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01-18-2018 , 12:58 AM

branch0095

adept

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 928

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuadJ

Read-less this is a jam OTT with <1PSB remaining, and with this type of V I wouldn't be surprised if he showed us some type of 6x hand. Not much you can do here with these stacks. I expect to be ahead more often than not, but it wouldn't be my favorite spot ever to be in.

If you do know more about your V's tendencies, then then the above I quoted is good advice IMO. These are definitely some non-standard lines to have in your arsenal when you're playing against players you see on a regular basis, or you've been a the table long enough with a V that he's shown very strong betting patterns.

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01-18-2018 , 03:23 AM

Nogyong

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,801

I am not expecting to see 6x here too often.

This loose villain's range has many more combos of 9x,77,88,TT, QQ and occasionally he's being sticky with overcards like AK,AQ,KQ.

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01-18-2018 , 01:14 PM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,773

Check/jam. Don't let him get off easy. If he checks behind, bet most rivers.

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01-18-2018 , 01:32 PM

Vomit9000

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 73

Depends probably on how clever you want to be / long termy you want to be.

C/Jam is probably good now but exploitative in the long run.

Jam is good if you want to be able to ship in Ks8s or other 3b rando stuff in the future with decent fold equity.

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01-18-2018 , 02:08 PM

br3nt00

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,664

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javanewt

Check/jam. Don't let him get off easy. If he checks behind, bet most rivers.

i like this based on the villain's description

i bet he put you on AK!

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01-18-2018 , 02:36 PM

#10

SwolyswoND

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,976

Why are we check/jamming instead of just jamming when we have <PSB left?

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01-18-2018 , 02:46 PM

#11

Joey913

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,300

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javanewt

Check/jam. Don't let him get off easy. If he checks behind, bet most rivers.

This. Against a true LAG (which I am trusting this guy is), it is often beneficial to be an "opposite" (bet to bluff, check when we have it) player to allow him to make mistakes. If we play with him a lot, it will evolve into a cat and mouse game where you can't just employ this tactic.

Well played to now. Check/shove forsure. With the SPR and his range, we're not that concerned about giving a free card and need to focus on how to get as much money of his in the pot.

Shoving allows him to get away from 77/88/TT/9x. Checking makes your hand look like AK/AQ that c-bet and is giving up on turn.

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01-18-2018 , 02:53 PM

#12

Joey913

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,300

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwolyswoND

Why are we check/jamming instead of just jamming when we have <PSB left?

Because V's range is wide pre and our flop c-bet likely only narrowed it a bit, meaning we are still likely ahead. We want to get HIS money into the pot, not just ours, and checking (with the plan to shove a non-ace river if V checks back turn) is the best way to do that.

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01-18-2018 , 03:52 PM

#13

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

wp hand as long as you stuffed

Flop can be smaller but its fine

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01-18-2018 , 06:09 PM

#14

Scooo13zzz

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 408

Hero-Checks
(V)- bets $65.00

Hero-Jams $150.00
(V)- Tank Calls

River- 9

We turn over our JJ and (V) mucks

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01-18-2018 , 06:39 PM

#15

SwolyswoND

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,976

If we held AA or maybe KK, I'd be more on board with the c/jam turn plan. JJ is too vulnerable for that.

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01-18-2018 , 07:12 PM

#16

Nogyong

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,801

As long as you don't check/fold, I expect the difference between the various different plays are marginal. I can see strong arguments for every play and it mostly depends on how wide his range is, how he perceives us and our range and how aggressive he is when checked to.

We could take a thousand active and aggressive players, run some simulations and I'm still not sure we'd find a clear answer as to what is the optimal play in this spot.

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