Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-30-2014, 07:52 PM   #1
scelsi
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,464
300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

2/5/10+50 blind raise consistently. A very good game with a 200/400+ limit player killing time. V is laggy, opens wide (KQs, ATo+, 22+, some sc's) an has raised all CO vs Hero BU, all EP flats of the blind raise. Check-shoved turn pair+FD KdQs on K75sss3d. Opened CO, Hero flatted BU 98ss, Q77 ch/ch turn 6 check-bombed Hero lead.

Hand

ES 300bb. UTG blind-raise 50, EP flats, folded to V raises 200 OTB. Hero has AhQs in SB.

Muck seems weak. Raise-fold seems worse. Flat is kind of large (+10%) and V will play for stacks on most flops.

Thoughts?
scelsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2014, 08:42 PM   #2
beauvanlaanen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
beauvanlaanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,490
So your stack is 1500?
beauvanlaanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2014, 08:46 PM   #3
XquisiteWretch
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 414
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

Muck doesn't seem weak at all imo. Do you really want to play AQo oop to a 3 bet?
XquisiteWretch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2014, 09:13 PM   #4
Willyoman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Willyoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,468
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

I think this is a rare actual fold or shove spot.

Assuming effective stacks are $1,500.

Your range on V seems pretty reasonable.

I'd shove. Folding is second best.

Calling is second worst. You're gonna get more callers, and the pot will be $800 with $1,300 behind. That seems pretty terrible given you're oop with zero post-flop maneuverability and especially because you need to check/fold most flops. You really can't play your AQo that way.

And you really can't raise/fold like 40% of your stack. That seems first worst.

Shove > fold > call > raise/fold > eat your cards.
Willyoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2014, 09:25 PM   #5
Willyoman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Willyoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,468
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by XquisiteWretch View Post
Muck doesn't seem weak at all imo. Do you really want to play AQo oop to a 3 bet?
There's more to it than the fact that it's a 3-bet pot.

EP is blind raising.

V is LAG and also probably knows EP is blind raising.
Willyoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2014, 09:58 PM   #6
scelsi
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,464
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by beauvanlaanen View Post
So your stack is 1500?
Yea. Straddle is on. So I guess technically 150bb effective.
scelsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2014, 09:59 PM   #7
IceWater
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 36
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

This is rough. Really tough spot.

V is in an obvious steal position, so his range may be weaker than normal. And if I understand your stack size correctly(1500?), there is 20% of your stack out there for the taking. These two factors give you a lot of fold equity if you shove. But if he calls you will be in TERRIBLE shape against all of his calling range. Seriously, you'll be hoping he has KK if he calls, and that's not good. You might have the fold equity to make it profitable though. If I misunderstood your stack size(3000?) and there's only 10% of your stack out there then I would fold.
IceWater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2014, 10:00 PM   #8
scelsi
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,464
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyoman View Post
There's more to it than the fact that it's a 3-bet pot.

EP is blind raising.

V is LAG and also probably knows EP is blind raising.
V def knows. He also knows me as a LAG and that makes me apprehensive about the open, ie I should squeeze a lot from SB here, so I think his range might be narrower than usual.
scelsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2014, 10:16 PM   #9
IceWater
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 36
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

One more thought. A raise here is strictly a re-steal since he wont call with worse. Because of the straddle and blind raise there are still 3 random hands left to act behind you. Makes re-stealing more dangerous than usual from the SB.
IceWater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2014, 10:17 PM   #10
rm81
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The DM
Posts: 1,598
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

click to 666 call shove
rm81 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2014, 07:59 AM   #11
scelsi
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,464
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by rm81 View Post
click to 666 call shove
That's essentially what I did. Made it 520 with intent to call shove. In retrospect, I think I leveled myself into bet-calling, though. V can't shove less than {TT+, AK} here, unless he thinks I can dump AK and maybe TT-QQ, to the 4-bet.

Point is, I don't think he thinks I am raise-folding. So this is a shove for value. Best case, I'm coin-flipping. There is a 60% chance I'm crushed.
scelsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2014, 12:28 PM   #12
XquisiteWretch
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 414
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

Id just wait for a better spot. You dont have to win every pot. You literally have $5 invested and youre thinking about jamming $1500 in with AQ? Silly imo
XquisiteWretch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2014, 03:07 PM   #13
AintNoLimit
See my coaching listing
 
AintNoLimit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: las vegas
Posts: 6,402
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyoman View Post
I think this is a rare actual fold or shove spot.

Assuming effective stacks are $1,500.

Your range on V seems pretty reasonable.

I'd shove. Folding is second best.

Calling is second worst. You're gonna get more callers, and the pot will be $800 with $1,300 behind. That seems pretty terrible given you're oop with zero post-flop maneuverability and especially because you need to check/fold most flops. You really can't play your AQo that way.

And you really can't raise/fold like 40% of your stack. That seems first worst.

Shove > fold > call > raise/fold > eat your cards.





This is it and VERY well done sir.
AintNoLimit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 01:21 AM   #14
rm81
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The DM
Posts: 1,598
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by scelsi View Post
That's essentially what I did. Made it 520 with intent to call shove. In retrospect, I think I leveled myself into bet-calling, though. V can't shove less than {TT+, AK} here, unless he thinks I can dump AK and maybe TT-QQ, to the 4-bet.

Point is, I don't think he thinks I am raise-folding. So this is a shove for value. Best case, I'm coin-flipping. There is a 60% chance I'm crushed.
I dont think he has it that high % of the time it is an open raise from the friggin button. You are too worried about the results I think he folds a very high % of the time and you pick up over $300 and a large % of the shoves are going to be 66-JJ. I think raise a little higher it is kind of awkward if he flats with like a KJ or 109 suited type hand
rm81 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 08:19 AM   #15
daniel9861
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,381
Re: 300bb AQo in blind-raised pot

I like $600/call. He might make a mistake and flat with AK and fold on brick flops.
daniel9861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 12:08 PM   #16
MackCorl
grinder
 
MackCorl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: MI
Posts: 456
Shove or folding should be the highest EV, and I'm guessing they are a lot closer than you guys suspect.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using 2+2 Forums
MackCorl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2014, 06:05 PM   #17
BondTrader
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 232
Shove or fold. if you shove and villain folds show the Q muck the A.
BondTrader is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive