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3- nuts facing river 3- bet 3- nuts facing river 3- bet

11-29-2014 , 01:45 AM
Game is £0.5-£0.1 NLHE 5- handed. Villain is solid player. I limp CO with J6cc (know its bad, don't know why did it, something got into me). Button and SB calls. Villain raises to £6, I call (know its bad again), Button calls SB calls.

Flop comes AQXcc villain bets £10.50, I call, Button and SB folds.

Turn came 9c. Villain checks, I check.

River comes 10, Villain bets £23, I raise to £50, villain tank raise £130.

What could villain have here other than nuts? Usually I would have folded assuming 3- bet river ranges are always polarised to the nuts? Are river 3- bets usually the nuts?

I was getting just over 2:1 for a call. Pot was £226 when he 3- bet.

Eff stacks before hand was around 200bb deep per person on table.

Not here to be commented on preflop game, strategic wise usually a lot tighter, but still working on it, just that hand don't know why played it like this pre, probably it was cause last 10 hands.
3- nuts facing river 3- bet Quote
11-29-2014 , 01:55 AM
are the clubs A Q 9 ?

It's very close off hand (not running the equities of Kxcc and other flushes vs your hand quite yet), but you should be getting the proper odds to call (assuming those are the clubs on board showing). I hate your turn check and your raise size on the river.

Last edited by everydaygrind; 11-29-2014 at 02:02 AM.
3- nuts facing river 3- bet Quote
11-29-2014 , 02:22 AM
sorry board was Ac Qx Tc 9c X

check turn cause this guy will bet river almost 100% of the time but fold to a turn bet almost always. Also check turn to disguise and also let him improve to second best hand.

I think checking turn more pros than cons.

Near min- raise on river makes it difficult for him to fold straight, 2- pair, AK, AQ, AX etc, so I don't think its too bad.
3- nuts facing river 3- bet Quote
11-29-2014 , 09:07 AM
You've got much bigger issues than the river decision. Don't limp J6s ever. Seriously, ever. Don't call a raise with J6s. Sorry, I know you don't want to hear it, but you need to. That's a gaping hole.

Yes, river 3-bets from competent players in a LLSNL game is almost always the nuts. Unless you have a specific reason to believe he's bluffing, he's probably not.

Also, bet when you hit your flush. You do this for value. Slowplaying is usually not ideal in LLSNL. Occasionally, against a clueless LAG, it's profitable. Usually, you should just bet your hands though.

Last edited by jesse123; 11-29-2014 at 09:12 AM.
3- nuts facing river 3- bet Quote
11-29-2014 , 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerboy1606
sorry board was Ac Qx Tc 9c X

check turn cause this guy will bet river almost 100% of the time but fold to a turn bet almost always.
If this is true, you should put it in the description of V. It would be more helpful than "villain is solid".
3- nuts facing river 3- bet Quote
11-29-2014 , 11:28 AM
when are river 3- bets not the nuts?
3- nuts facing river 3- bet Quote
11-29-2014 , 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerboy1606
when are river 3- bets not the nuts?
A re-steal situation when two competent thinking players are very deep.

This is not one of those situations.

So yeah, fold PF. As played, fold river.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using 2+2 Forums
3- nuts facing river 3- bet Quote
11-29-2014 , 12:03 PM
I mean I was getting 2:1, what range of hands on this board would I beat facing a 3- bet?

I have played this guy a couple of times before but I doubt he remember me. The way I would review and think is a possibility, though might be levelling myself, here is that he thinks I check back a straight draw on turn and value raise river. I don't exactly rmb the board run out but any KX broadway had a straight draw. He is somewhat a thinking player I assume, seeing him play a few times and can hear him whisper his thoughts, somewhat spewy though. Levelling myself?

Fold 2nd nuts in this situation too?
3- nuts facing river 3- bet Quote
11-29-2014 , 12:11 PM
Grunch.

I know you don't want to hear it... but fold pre 2x. This is where you should be focusing in this hand. J6s is a very crappy hand. Calling a 6x raise from the blinds with it is also bad. Villains raising range in this spot probably looks something like... AJo+ and 88+ with some other KJs and JTs type hands. Basically his range completely dominates yours, so you will need to either be getting really paid when you hit, or bluffing a lot to make this play +EV. You are also out of relative position if they other players come along (OTF when Villain leads, you still have two players behind you when you act).

OTF Villain bet's... like I mentioned before, you have two players behind you and this board hit's Villains raising range from the blinds. Semi-blufF raising here looks to be a very ambitious play. Flatting seems best.

OTT you hit your flush and Villain checks. Honestly checking behind here is a big mistake IMO. Do you have a reason for checking? It seems that Villain will have a bunch of hands (sets, two pairs, top pair, and single club type hands) that can call a bet. By checking behind you are giving him a free draw to a boat. Bet the turn for like $20-$30 IMO.

Come river, he leads, you raise, and he comes over the top... In this spot, which of the two cards OTF were clubs is very relevant. If the A and Q were clubs than this hand is way closer to a call than if the A was a spade or whatever. But yeah... against most players this is a fold.

IMO you played this hand pretty poorly. It might benefit you to play your hands more straight forward to avoid these types of spots somewhat. You took a funky line here and now don't know what to do against this guy when he throws it back at you. But yeah, fold pre twice IMO, bet the turn.
3- nuts facing river 3- bet Quote
11-29-2014 , 12:33 PM
A of clubs was, Q wasnt.

Pre I knew it was a mistake. There's a bunch of reasons why I did it but im not gna say and just accept it as being bad as a whole.

Reason for not betting turn listed a bunch above. There's one reason why I should bet turn but tons more reasons why I should check turn. TBH idk if its good, though i know its different to standard play.

He won't 3- bet Q flush here right?
3- nuts facing river 3- bet Quote
11-29-2014 , 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerboy1606
A of clubs was, Q wasnt.

Pre I knew it was a mistake. There's a bunch of reasons why I did it but im not gna say and just accept it as being bad as a whole.

Reason for not betting turn listed a bunch above. There's one reason why I should bet turn but tons more reasons why I should check turn. TBH idk if its good, though i know its different to standard play.

He won't 3- bet Q flush here right?
Depends on the player, a weak tight is never 3betting a Q high flush here but someone more aggressive might.

Solid player doesn't mean anything. If he is a bit weak tight it's a fold (Qhigh flush is also a fold), if I have a read he value bets very very thin I can't fold this but then wtf does he 3bet OTR that we beat? River raises are usualy very nutty and villain knows this.
3- nuts facing river 3- bet Quote
11-29-2014 , 03:12 PM
Just fold and find another spot. Agree with other posters
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11-29-2014 , 03:38 PM
I'd call river. He could be bet/3b river with any set or str8. He could easily think you don't have a flush since you checked the turn. Or he could have a smaller flush and think its the nuts cuz you checked turn.

edit: also he tanked before he raised you to 130 which is another indicator he didn't have the nuts. He may have been putting the puzzle pieces together that you prob don't have a flush since you checked turn so he could be value raising worse.
3- nuts facing river 3- bet Quote

      
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