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2-5 Tough River spot 2-5 Tough River spot

05-31-2014 , 10:43 PM
was playing at a local card room with a lot of bad players. They would call to light, bet to light, and fold to 3bets 90% of the time. I was card dead for the first hour, which stupidly was a factor when playing this hand.

Hero (BB):240$
MP1- 400
MP2-600
LP-500

Hero:Kd10d

MP1- calls 5$
MP2- raises 15
LP- calls 15
Hero- calls 15
MP1- calls 15

Flop (62$) 7KJr

Everyone checks

Turn- 3s

Hero- checks
MP1- beta 30
MP2- folds
LP- folds
Hero- calls 30

River- 8h

Hero- checks
MP1- bets 65?

Do I call or fold here? I think I have his range beat most of the time. I put him on
Aj, kj, qj, 10j, jk, kq, k10, and some bluffs since he is known to bet 2 streets with air to take down the pot.

Ill sumbit results once I hear some feedback.

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05-31-2014 , 11:03 PM
If he could be betting 2nd pair here call is fine, but I think I fold here. His river bet suggests he can usually beat KT. Tough to give good advice with no player specific reads though.
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05-31-2014 , 11:10 PM
I 100% call in this situation. If he has a K or better, then why is he checking on the flop with 3 other players in the pot??? However, if I were in your spot, I am leading out on the turn to see where I am at. You played the hand very passively. But you did flop top pair. If you're going to fold to his river bet after showing no aggression on the flop, then you have no business calling this hand pre-flop.
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05-31-2014 , 11:19 PM
Not folding river to a bad player here. You should have led turn though. Also, calling pre is very borderline.
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05-31-2014 , 11:26 PM
This is a limped pot and the possibility of someone having slow played his set rises considerably
1 pair is a clear fold and if the flop was heads up an argument for call could have been made against a maniac
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06-01-2014 , 11:17 AM
KT is the worst hand in poker IMO, a huge reverse implied odds hand.

As played, V's bet is too small compared to the pot to fold on the river when you've under-represented your hand. Call. But don't be surprised at the many times you will be beat. He bet two streets, only checking the flop to give the PFR a chance to c-bet. He could easily have a better king, 2 pair, or a set. But you could easily be good as well, based on your description of V, and you're getting 3:1 for your money!

I would not have called a raise pre OOP with such a weak hand.

I would have lead the turn for 40ish and folded to a raise. Everyone checked the flop so you probably have the best hand. Best to charge the other players to draw to their random 2 pairs or straights. If they raise, you can assume you're beat. Then a river bet is often a frustration bluff from bad players when they miss their draw, so I'd check/call there.
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06-01-2014 , 11:44 AM
Re-load pre-deal. <50bb's is lol small, unless you're planning to push/fold (not recommended, as it's like lighting money on fire in the short term).

I'm ok with the call pre. KT can be tricky (RIO, as mentioned), but it is sooted, and your pot/implied odds are through the roof.

I'd rather a lead out otf. A decent amount, say 50. TPGK isn't enough to get 3 streets of value, I'm ok with possibly taking it right here. Plus if we were outflopped (by say 77) I'd rather find out now.

As played to the river, you're getting ~3:1. Call, I guess, though I'm not sure what we beat.

The problem with playing so passively (and probably the reason you started this thread) is you just can't narrow V's range. Sure, your hand is disguised, but so is his.
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06-01-2014 , 11:56 AM
I ender up calling after being confused on what he was holding and he showed K8 for two pair.

I figured he could have me beat but he is known to bet with air 3 streets to win a pot. I didn't think he was doing that but it was a possibility that he missed a streight or flush and was hoping I would fold with his river bet.

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06-01-2014 , 11:59 AM
If they literally fold to a 3-bet preflop 90% of the time, as you mentioned, then I would 3 bet here. Actually I would 3 bet ATC until they adjusted to me. That much FE will be profitable.

As played, I would lead the turn. Try to get some value from a smaller K or a J.

On the river his hand is screaming a floped KJ or a set of 77s. Maybe a turned set of 33s. Even with the good odds I would make an unhappy fold.
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06-01-2014 , 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bweezy90
I ender up calling after being confused on what he was holding and he showed K8 for two pair.

I figured he could have me beat but he is known to bet with air 3 streets to win a pot. I didn't think he was doing that but it was a possibility that he missed a streight or flush and was hoping I would fold with his river bet.

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He rivered you. He made a bad turn call and was rewarded. Bad beat. Move on. The call was fine.

Edit: Oops, he didn't call the turn, he lead the turn. Which is why you should have bet the turn. Get him to make a bad call.
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06-02-2014 , 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bweezy90
I ender up calling after being confused on what he was holding and he showed K8 for two pair.

I figured he could have me beat but he is known to bet with air 3 streets to win a pot. I didn't think he was doing that but it was a possibility that he missed a streight or flush and was hoping I would fold with his river bet.

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generally in these type of rooms, lots of players make too many mistakes, but many times they are either set mining, or they are trying to hit 2 pair and stack off against a tight aggressive player's TPTK type of hands.
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06-02-2014 , 04:16 AM
very tricky spot. I think you should have bet OTF or the turn to know where you are.
why were you checking? what was your plan for the hand?
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06-02-2014 , 04:26 AM
If villain is raising as light as K8o in MP1 I think this is a fine spot and a fine hand for a 3bet pre.
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06-02-2014 , 02:34 PM
1. Fold pre OOP here given your stack size. I'd maybe consider a 3 bet instead of a call at this table given the description.

2. I'd lead the turn here a fair % of the time.
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06-02-2014 , 03:17 PM
Grunch.

Do you have any reads on MP? Why did you check the turn? Why do you think this is a tough decision?

I would probably bet/fold both the turn and river for value. As played call unless this guy is a super nit.
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06-02-2014 , 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vjniel
This is a limped pot and the possibility of someone having slow played his set rises considerably
1 pair is a clear fold and if the flop was heads up an argument for call could have been made against a maniac
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You should probably try and read the OP before you respond with advice.
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06-02-2014 , 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls_horn
Re-load pre-deal. <50bb's is lol small, unless you're planning to push/fold (not recommended, as it's like lighting money on fire in the short term).

I'm ok with the call pre. KT can be tricky (RIO, as mentioned), but it is sooted, and your pot/implied odds are through the roof.

I'd rather a lead out otf. A decent amount, say 50. TPGK isn't enough to get 3 streets of value, I'm ok with possibly taking it right here. Plus if we were outflopped (by say 77) I'd rather find out now.

As played to the river, you're getting ~3:1. Call, I guess, though I'm not sure what we beat.

The problem with playing so passively (and probably the reason you started this thread) is you just can't narrow V's range. Sure, your hand is disguised, but so is his.
Doesn't leading the flop for almost a PSB basically shut out weaker hands from calling and the PFR from cbetting air/weaker hands? Also if we lead flop we are basically committing to this hand, so I don't see a whole lot of room for folding. With these stack sizes, I definitely like bet/calling more than bet folding when we make top pair. But with that said, I like checking the flop best.
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06-02-2014 , 04:05 PM
really dislike leading the flop here, we didn't play KTs 4 way vs. a raise to make top pair crap kicker + no 1 card draw.
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06-02-2014 , 06:39 PM
Call now.

Fold prw with less than 50bb
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