Table is standard $1/$2 NL at Parx.

Woman seated to my immediate left as about a 40ish Asian. She has been been pretty tight. She's raised once preflop. Never made it to showdown.

We've been playing together for about 3-4 hours.

She is UTG. I am in BB. She raises to $10. UTG+1 calls. He's been calling a lot of raises and playing pretty fit or fold postflop. Tripled up with AJ suited when he flopped the nut flush against a set and two pair. UTG+2 calls. He's a bad LAG who thinks he's the best at the table. He recently seat changed after stacking me.

It folds to me in the BB. I make it $62. I think I would have been better off going to $40-$45 range.

She shoves for $182 total .So $120 more to me. I know I'm beat, but it takes me a minute or so before I fold my QQ. She shows KK.

Was my 3-bet size too big?

One EP raise, 2 callers you make it 6x. If you think you are getting called by TT-JJ or similar under pair and Ax hands with this sizing it's fine. Given reads on villain if she flats or shoves here you can not be happy and are probably flipping vs AK at best, but there are 2 other villians that might give you value and a lot of the times old lady will fold. Personally I would probably make it closer to $45-50 but it's villian dependent (the remaining 2), a bad lag and stationy guy...this is probably fine.

Depends on stack sizes and calling ranges, but yes $62 is 2X pot sized and way big in general. With a $31 pot when it gets to you, even $30/$35 might have been enough.

from a NEWBIE advice:

I like the 3-bet, probably would have made it $40 or $50... with $182, does she raise or shove? I'm folding that hand to that player in that spot almost every time (and when I don't it's a mistake).

Only diff, you save $10+ making it smaller.

If you call... chance to go broke on a board of rags...

3bet to 45-50 pre and fold to her shove. If reads are right her raising range pre is TT+, AQ+ at the worst and its probably more like JJ+ and some AK. Against players with a super narrow raising range pre....I'd prefer flatting QQ pre even OOP in a multiway bloated pot. 3betting is fine as well but u have to fold to a 4bet

Just noticed u folded. Good lay down. U need 31% equity here to break even and her 4bet range is either QQ+ or KK+. On second thought I think a 3bet fold is best. Playing multiway wih big pairs sucks and by 3betting u get value from worse when she flats or fold AK,JJ,TT. When she has KK+ she will most likely shove....allowing u to safely fold. QQ is usually the bottom end of my 3bettin range against tight openers in multiway pots. I'd fold AK pre a lot to tight openers (u have very little implied odds against TT-KK but huge RIO against KK+) but I would also 3bet fold AK some of the time against them (since we have blockers and TT-QQ may fold....plus we expect KK+ to 4bet so we can fold) in multiway pots

If your opponent is fit or fold post. It would be best to flat her raises pre. Then when she gives you the keys you steal the pot.

3bet to $45..fold to four bet....$62 was too much.

Nice fold btw.

Why bloat the pot pre oop when the flop is most important. You can lose your stack if you get flatted and you see A or K flop. Which you have to cbet and basically find out if you have the best hand. Tbh playing 2bet pots are very ideal for the skill difference. When you wonder into 3bet pots vs weak opponents you actually are doing a disservice to the knowledge you have that of being a 2+2'er who logs in everyday.

We are 3 betting with hopes to not have to play OOP and to be able to fold easily to moronic villians who don't understand the stacking power of flatting 3 bets with aa and kk.

Most $1/$2 villains just spazz 4 bet ship..so folding qq becomes easy.

People don't fold strong ace or pp in position from a 3bet. You even got donk tourney players who play cash and raise pretty much any pp from utg+

Chip uhh what range do you put her on pre that qq is a good 3 bet

I mean if she's raised twice in 4 hours your 3 bet range should be crazy tight. Plus she is going to play very exploitably post flop.

If you want to 3 bet fold I'd raise to no less than 40 since it sounds like UTG+2 will call a lot

This was a lady...I like 3 betting line...better than calling and flop comes 10 J 2 and now we are oop and in no mans land as far as knowing what she has...

JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AK.

The idea was - for lack of a better term - to gain information. I know we hate saying 'betting or raising for information' but if I flat, I'm playing this four-way OOP. I went too big ... Probably $50 would have been ideal. That's basically 'pot.'

She folds JJ and AK. More importantly, it enables me to play heads-up if she flats because I think the other two fold.

I thought there was a good chance that she had a bigger pocket pair and I wasn't going to play for stacks on a 9 high flop.

I know what you're going to say, though, and you're right: If her range is that small, then we're basically turning QQ into a bluff, right?

If that's her range the 3 bet is terrible and clearly -EV.

This isn't the kind of villain to bluff the flop and turn hard when she misses with ak

Oh come on her hand is going to be face up because the described villain is never betting air. That flop is an easy check fold. The only hand we are ahead of is ak which she will likely check behind us.

Learn to hand read.

Giving away another 15 bb for "info" when her range is like 4 or 5 hands is pretty dumb. How much more info do you need.

Flat the flop noob players are fairly easy to play against. Especially tight ones. Does she really raise KJ, probably not, so you would be able to gauge if she has AJ ott with her bet sizing. Ott is probably by far the most exploitable street in llsnl. The reason being, they don't size well ott. Usually bet size gives off the strength of their hand. Most don't double barrel enough. So they will slow down ott with hands like AK, AQ, KJ and like 99 on that type of board texture.

Lotgrinder most if not all of us on here are not in no mans land regardless of position given the level of players we play against. Most of them are purely clueless.

Dude wtf at 3 betting then if she folds jj and ak. That's horrible.

Her folding jj is a bad outcome.

And our hand is easy to play vs ak because we can comfortably c/f when she bets any a or k high flop

Lol this V doesn't raise pre with AJ.

Dude if you don't flat every tight person and there momma when there range is JJ+ andAK, with QQ you are missing a lot of money. Someone with that tight of a range plays face up postflop.

It was just an example on how to play against tight players. My example was like a gauge. AJ is in some tight players ep range. An example not static rumor.

Yeah but not relevant to this thread though so why post it

Where have I argued to fold pre?

My point is just that its stupid to bloat the pot up when we are behind their range. Flat and see the flop.

I was talking to kolb 3betting a range of JJ+ and AK with QQ. Is beyond moraly wrong as a poker player.

When you disconnect yourself from absolute value of a hand, you'll play much better.

QQ is a set mining hand in this spot against said villain. Pretty straight forward stuffs.