Are you ever doing it? Under what kind of circumstances?

Maybe the question is too broad, but in general OOP it just seems like such a bad idea that it would take some very specific circumstances to make it a good idea.

Here's a hand, for example, that should probably be considered terrible spew, but a part of me still thinks it was okay. I'm not really sure. It's very questionable at best. I'm curious what others think.

V is loose and aggressive pre, raising half of hands that are limped to him in middle or late position. Post flop is also sticky, doesn't fold to c-bets unless there are callers before him, capable of raising the river as a bluff, but will fold facing a lot of strength. Mostly he likes to have control over the action, and wants to be the one betting, being checked to, etc. Been playing with him for the past hour or so, he's not a great player, not terrible either, he probably thinks he's better than he is, though he does seem to have a good sense of the game.

1/2, 180$eff. Folded to me in hijack with 78.

Villain is on button; I raise to 8 (small raise from me, but also first time villain has seen me raise since he sat down) V calls, BB calls.

Flop (25) A73

BB checks, I bet 20, V obviously calls, BB folds. It was basically x/fold the flop or be ready to barrel. I have some outs, could possibly have the best hand, so I'm feeling ready to barrel.

His range here is still very wide. Ax, 7x, but he's raising his 2 pair or better. Possibly just calling with a set (33, only 1 77 combo)

Turn (65) A73 6

I am glancing at villain when turn comes and based on his reaction I feel absolutely certain he doesn't have the flush. So my plan is to bet this turn, if he calls his range is basically AQ-A7 (I expect a 3-bet from AK pre, also maybe AQ, and TT+), if he raises then I won't be happy, but I do not think he will raise here unless he made a straight or set, A6 may just call. I considered a x/shove but am not certain he'll bet. If he just calls then my plan is to shove most rivers.

So I bet 50, he hesitates thinking for like 10 seconds, and calls.

River (165) A73 6 2

I was not really prepared for the 4th club. I didn't have any real reaction to it, but it slowed me down, I spend 5-10 seconds calmly counting out my chips so I can decide whether I should shove here, decide that his range consists mostly of Ax hands, most of which will be very hard pressed to call, except maybe AQ/AJ with the Q/J of clubs. My shove may look like a bluff to him, but on the other hand nobody bluffs into these boards, ever, in the games I play in, and in any case, he's going to be VERY hard pressed to call with the majority of his holdings.

So after the few seconds counting/stacking out my chips I shove for my remaining 100 (he's not thinking so much about pot odds here, he's thinking that I'm shoving for 100 on a 4 to a flush board). He tanks forever, like 4 minutes of tanking and talking to himself...

So I mean, I don't know. Tell me what you think of this. I was right in that it's so hard for him to call, but my shove looks like a bluff to him (in fact I do have AxKc, KQcc, KJcc, QJcc, probably JTcc, certainly AxQc in my value range here, but he is obviously not thinking like this). Anyway, he tanked forever, and in the end made a decision, the results are irrelevant for the moment, I'm only interested in what people think about my fairly ridiculous line.

Well played. He doesnt have Kc/Qc in his range.

Idk why you are trying to make a guy who doesn't like to fold, fold ott.

Just c/f turn, even his flop floats likely have a load of equity vs you. For the most part you're going to be up against a lot of hands that have you crushed but won't fold to two barrels.

This is half right. It's true, it takes a lot to make this guy fold, but I'm not expecting him to fold the turn. I'm prepared to shove the river, because that's what it will take.

On the other hand, I basically missed my hand on the flop, so x/folding the flop is a valid option, even if I may be folding the best hand. So basically it's either x/fold flop, or c-bet flop, and on turn decide whether or not this is a good spot to empty the clip. I know he's almost never folding the turn. Which is why this post is about 3-barrelling. In the end, I actually think the 4th club on the river may have worked to my disadvantage, since even to merely competent players, a shove there just looks like a bluff, because most players fear that 4th club and are checking their 2pair, sets, TPTK, even lower flushes. It's one of those spots where I think you really need to understand how your villain is going to expect you to react to the scare card, it's a delicate spot.

I´d wait for a better hand pf with a troublesome LAG behind me. Especially not being very deep. I´m not really qualified to comment on the rest. I really just wanted to say that you showed the heart of a lion here and deserve a lot of credit. Interested in what others have to say.

I find it extremely hard to get this kind of player to fold a pair of aces or any club higher than a 9.
I'd be looking to get a seat change so that he's on my right & top off to the max.

I'd be in favor of the shove if you had an ace. Otherwise, I think you lose more often than not. Then again, since V took so much time, he finally started thinking about what his opponent might have so maybe not such a bad play.

I think you'll lose money doing this play over and over, because even if he is a LAG, you'll get more calls than you want from these calling stations, and also a lot of times they'll have you crushed.

You are repping pretty thin here... against a sticky player you should expect to get called by anything that is anything really. The Ac being on the board makes this bluff much less believable. If the board was Q high I think you would get more credit. Congrats if it worked, but I image you will simply be punting off your stack here a big portion of the time.

Yeah, this is spew, even if he did fold it. Your line is too sophisticated for him to believe that some 1/2 player is firing on three streets with a FD on the flop and made flushes on the turn and river. You need to be asking yourself why a player that likes to take control of a hand is playing so passively now.

you can check the flop here.

The reason he's playing passively is that he's not being checked to, as usually happens. It also tells me he actually has a hand this time, like Ax.

But I believe you're right and this is spew. I don't really know where my villain is at in terms of level of thinking, but except for the really level 1 thinkers no one ever wants to believe you here and will end up calling with all kind of trash.

***Which got me thinking, I should start going to huge value in these spots. Like if I had AK, no clubs, do you think I should be shoving for value? AQ? ANY CLUB? Should I be shoving the 5 of clubs for value?