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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 09-13-2017, 05:35 PM   #26
randomcards
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Re: 3/5 vs aggro - is this what I was waiting for?

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Originally Posted by cicakman View Post
Turn c/r is so terrible in K8 hand. Not sure why you're turning showdown value into a bluff vs a spaz.
Are you advocating C/C, C/C on turn/river or lead turn and C/C river?

If Old Man Nit wasn't in hand I likely would have led the turn. I think if my pair was a J going into C/C mode works, but with only an 8 half the rivers could easily hit villains random hands with cards over an 8. I was specifically trying to

A) eliminate villains equity with broadway-ish hands through getting him to fold turn which I think a C/R does better

B) if villain has specifically 99-QQ set up a bluff on the river to take it away which I also think a turn C/R, lead river does better

Obviously you disagree so curious about what you think the optimal line is starting on the turn (I assume you disagree with calling the raise pre-flop and I assume you probably agree with the flop check OOP)
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:51 PM   #27
jdr0317
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Re: 3/5 vs aggro - is this what I was waiting for?

The fact that we flopped trip 3's against an aggressive opponent, turned an OESD to go with it, and are questioning whether we should go with our hand or not is a great indicator that this hand needs to be folded preflop.

Also agree that turning K8 into a x/r bluff in hand 2 is pretty poor.
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:52 PM   #28
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Re: 3/5 vs aggro - is this what I was waiting for?

pick a better holding to go up against the aggressor

with how the action played through, i would just gii. considering that he'll raise on AT LEAST good holdings, it's hard for him to have the other 3. flip for it and if he has an over pair then you're in a good spot. even if he has draws, he still has to hit his draws. a straight beats you but you still have outs to make a boat.

but..just muck the cards if they are garbage facing a raise.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:02 PM   #29
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Re: 3/5 vs aggro - is this what I was waiting for?

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Originally Posted by Tomark View Post
Ok so obviously this has devolved into a range discussion.
As best I can tell, villan may be good, and youve mistaken a good lag who is running people off of hands as a bad player. Its of course possible he isnt good, but most good LAGs have the feeling of unmitigated aggression.
Based on what I knew at the time of this HH, I think you are right. I thought he may be bad but he could have just been way better with aggression. Based on what I learned later in the session he turned out to be insanely terrible and I was glad I got 1k of his money before he gave it all away (which he did over the next 90 minutes). I got another $400-500 in a hand where he paid me off on multiple streets when I had a straight vs his mid pair. Then later he gave $400 away bluffing with 72off into AJ on a JJXXX board. And several others like that until he lost every chip of his monster stack.

He got much more obviously worse/poor play after the HH of this thread, but at the time it seemed unclear if he was an unappreciated genius or horrible donkey


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Originally Posted by Tomark View Post
First, villan has direct position on you. I personally would want to be across the table from him, and would change seats to do so.
I agree, good idea. I was looking for spots to 3 bet him wider than my normal range, but with him on my direct left this was tough (plus didn't have anything AJs or better during this 2-3 hour stretch unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Tomark View Post
Also, one thing thats concerning to me is your HH description. "i decided i liked my hand and GII" I would have to assume the hand you played here is a major factor in his perception of you.
Meh I'm good with the 10 10 hand you referenced. Villain was more likely to be squeezing in that spot vs crushing me. With very very short stack sizes GII preflop I like there. If he was a seeming nit type that would limp shove AA/KK would have been different; I fold there all the time.

I simply meant I felt sure that I was priced into a flip, but it was more likely he had a squeeze underpair vs a strong overpair so it was a profitable GII situation. And I was correct that time.

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Originally Posted by Tomark View Post
Despite V being a wide range lag, youre not in some wonderful spot to stack off because if he is decent, he can successfully manipulate his range for deception in situations like this. Not that youre making a killing in this spot but its an easy ship, and youre hoping to see AsXs. I wouldnt expect to see complete air, but if i did, id reevaluate the guy as being somewhat of a maniac as you originally described.
I agreed, that was why I posted the hand, I felt it was a probably a GII situation but far from ideal and maybe leveled myself into both playing garbage pre-flop and getting stacked from overvaluing a good but far from great hand on the turn. Agree with all of this.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:53 PM   #30
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Re: 3/5 vs aggro - is this what I was waiting for?

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Originally Posted by randomcards View Post
Ok I'll bow to consensus lol!

Let me ask a related question then regarding this hand (and will post results and the K8 hand next.

With this dynamic EVERY other of the 7 players at the table you did as described, tightened up dramatically, tried to make big pre-flop 4 bets that villain got away from, sometimes lost to villain with big pairs, sometimes won small pots with AA/KK type hands.

I am willing to be convinced, but is not intuitive that the appropriate way to react to said villain is to put myself into a pool of 8 other players playing the exact same way and hoping my number gets drawn and I get to take villain down.

It would seem there must be some sort of other adaptation (and obviously everybody doesn't think limp/calling 32 is it) to put myself in a better position against this villain than the rest of the table who all just got uber tight.

Thoughts?
If V is 3 betting (/raising) too wide, if you start 3/4 betting him he will either
1) fold too wide (therefore: reraise with a wide polarized range and bleed him to death)
2) call too much (therefore: tighten up and then reraise with a wide value range and value bet him to death)
3) 4/5 bet too much (therefore: tighten up further and 3/4 with a tighter range and ship with a wider range and nut peddle him to death)

you wont know at first so option 2 is most likely the best but id swap to 1 based on reads

also limping 100% of your playable range lets your 3! be a squeeze for additional free dead money.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:09 PM   #31
Avaritia
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Re: 3/5 vs aggro - is this what I was waiting for?

You guys sure used a lot of words to tell this poor fellow to fold pre
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:34 PM   #32
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Re: 3/5 vs aggro - is this what I was waiting for?

No, they used a lot of words to explain *why* one should fold pre.

Understanding why is far, far more important than knowing what the correct answer in this particular situation is.
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