Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. 3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn..

07-09-2015 , 01:40 PM
Playing 3/5 NL live 6-handed, I have a stack of $800.
Villain has been playing TAG for the last hour at the table and has a stack of $750.

Pre-Flop:
Hero - UTG - raises to $20 with JJ, everyone else folds to SB
SB - Calls
Villain - BB - 3-bets to $75, Hero calls, SB calls

Flop: 784
SB - Checks
Villain - Checks
Hero - Bets $100, SB & Villain both call

Turn: 3
SB - checks
Villain - checks
Hero - Bets $200, SB folds, Villain shoves all-in for $575

The pot is already $925 and its $375 more to call.

What should Hero do here?
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 01:49 PM
What was your plan when betting the $200 on the Turn?

I can see a bet/fold here, but I'm likely checking the Turn and folding any sizeable bet. I gotta think you're behind his entire range here so I'm leaning towards fold.
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 01:52 PM
what is the 3bet range of the BB? has he 3bet before?
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 02:00 PM
It was his first 3-bet at the table in an hour and 15 minutes. I have played with him before and I know he is capable of making a squeeze, but he is a solid player and mostly plays TAG the vast majority of them time I have played with him.

I will let you know how it played out I just want to see what people thought about this decision.
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerDharma
What was your plan when betting the $200 on the Turn?

I can see a bet/fold here, but I'm likely checking the Turn and folding any sizeable bet. I gotta think you're behind his entire range here so I'm leaning towards fold.
I actually thought for a while before betting the $200 on the turn debating whether I should check to protect myself from being check-raised like I was and to control the pot with just an overpair. I decided to bet the $200 to get value from flush draws or possibly even 99 or 1010.
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 02:44 PM
First can you tell me about the flop?

I never bet when the flop doesn't improve my hand, and pre-flop my hand wasn't strong enough to do anything but call.

When you bet the flop in spots like this what worse hands do you find that check and then call a bet?

You're behind if someone has a flush draw:

Board: 7c 8c 4d

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.818% 46.36% 00.45% 8262 81.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 53.182% 52.73% 00.45% 9396 81.00 { AcKc, AcQc, KcQc }
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by au4all
First can you tell me about the flop?

I never bet when the flop doesn't improve my hand, and pre-flop my hand wasn't strong enough to do anything but call.

When you bet the flop in spots like this what worse hands do you find that check and then call a bet?

You're behind if someone has a flush draw:

Board: 7c 8c 4d

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.818% 46.36% 00.45% 8262 81.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 53.182% 52.73% 00.45% 9396 81.00 { AcKc, AcQc, KcQc }
I decided to bet the flop to see where I was at in the hand. It was strange to see the Villain 3-bet pre for the first time at the table and then check on a flop like this so I wanted to gain some information about his hand by making the bet in position. There are some hands in Villains range that can fold after this line so I have some FE. I know that if I get called he has a flush draw a high percentage of the time, because I think if he has an overpair to JJ he would either check-raise or c-bet the flop. That was my reasoning behind the bet, but obviously I posted the hand on here to see how else I could have played the hand so I definitely could have made a mistake betting the flop here.
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 03:00 PM
whatever he has he played it very weird. Why wouldn't he cbet aces or kings on that flop with 3 players

I wouldn't mind checking back the flop (and especially the turn after he ck/called the flop) to keep the pot under control against a possible nut 3bet range anyway.

his line doesn't really make sense but since he c/r'd over two players I would just fold without any more info that he could be doing this as a bluff.
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 03:28 PM
I ended up tank folding on the turn after the Villain shoved for $575.
Villain showed 23

Obviously knowing what he had I wish I had called the turn.

I think my biggest mistake in the hand was betting the turn and I feel like I could have gotten away from a much smaller pot if the river was a club and fold to a bet on the river or check for showdown value on the river.

What do you think of Villains play here with 23?
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomcity35
I ended up tank folding on the turn after the Villain shoved for $575.
Villain showed 23

Obviously knowing what he had I wish I had called the turn.

I think my biggest mistake in the hand was betting the turn and I feel like I could have gotten away from a much smaller pot if the river was a club and fold to a bet on the river or check for showdown value on the river.

What do you think of Villains play here with 23?
He used his image really well here. But it's probably spewy unless you've shown the ability to lay down big hands. Hint: don't let them know you're agonizing over lay downs. They'll start making this move more often.
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomcity35
I ended up tank folding on the turn after the Villain shoved for $575.
Villain showed 23

Obviously knowing what he had I wish I had called the turn.

I think my biggest mistake in the hand was betting the turn and I feel like I could have gotten away from a much smaller pot if the river was a club and fold to a bet on the river or check for showdown value on the river.

What do you think of Villains play here with 23?
Villian got lucky and I hate his line mainly because he is allowing another draw to stick around and cooler him if he get's there and he is telling an inconsistent story which is the worse way to run a bluff.

OP i think you should have 4B in position against Villian preflop 6 handed with JJ. In a live setting if he 5B you can safely fold and it would be very difficult for Villian to out play post flop.
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 03:43 PM
I gotta get my eyes checked. I completely misread the Flop action as Villain bet 100, Hero and SB called. Which is why I made the comment I did about you then taking the lead on the Turn.

Looking back on it now, and really trying not to be results-oriented, I may be more willing to stack off here as played, because, as mentioned, why would he check/call that Flop and check again with AA, KK or QQ. Even a set of 8's is more likely to lead out or check raise the Flop. That would be a super fishy type weak when strong style, which if you describe him properly as TAG really shouldn't fit.

Knowing the action properly, I more likely would bet more on Turn and again stack off if shoved on. Alternatively, for pot control, check back the Turn and call any River that's not a Club, Ace or King.
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerDharma
I gotta get my eyes checked. I completely misread the Flop action as Villain bet 100, Hero and SB called. Which is why I made the comment I did about you then taking the lead on the Turn.

Looking back on it now, and really trying not to be results-oriented, I may be more willing to stack off here as played, because, as mentioned, why would he check/call that Flop and check again with AA, KK or QQ. Even a set of 8's is more likely to lead out or check raise the Flop. That would be a super fishy type weak when strong style, which if you describe him properly as TAG really shouldn't fit.

Knowing the action properly, I more likely would bet more on Turn and again stack off if shoved on. Alternatively, for pot control, check back the Turn and call any River that's not a Club, Ace or King.
No you had it right the first time, Villain checked the flop and Hero bet $100. But I agree, looking back on it and thinking about the line he took it really didn't make sense and I should have called the shove on the turn as played. I also think I should have checked the turn instead and do exactly what you said - fold to a river bet if a A or K hits.
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony_law
Villian got lucky and I hate his line mainly because he is allowing another draw to stick around and cooler him if he get's there and he is telling an inconsistent story which is the worse way to run a bluff.

OP i think you should have 4B in position against Villian preflop 6 handed with JJ. In a live setting if he 5B you can safely fold and it would be very difficult for Villian to out play post flop.
Interesting idea but I never considered a 4bet pre flop here given his TAG style and that it was his first 3-bet since Villain sat down. Obv. given he had 23 it would have worked in this particular case, but I don't think he has that hand too often in this spot.
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomcity35
Interesting idea but I never considered a 4bet pre flop here given his TAG style and that it was his first 3-bet since Villain sat down. Obv. given he had 23 it would have worked in this particular case, but I don't think he has that hand too often in this spot.
I don't think I would want to 4bet/fold jacks with 3 people in a 3bet pot against someone who is probably 3betting AA or KK. Until he showed you this hand, that is all we really had to go on.

I am either folding to someone who's range is depolarized or calling if I can setmine them, I would rather 4bet/fold ATo to a wide range than JJ.
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 04:19 PM
I think the flop bet is OK, but I would have checked the turn for pot control and because he might shove and I don't really want to call a shove.

As played, I have no idea what does this that you beat, unfortunately.

Edit: Just read results. Wow. He must have put you on AK and he used his image well.
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 04:23 PM
Also, what is your image, OP? Did he expect you to fold an overpair?
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote
07-09-2015 , 05:23 PM
I had a fairly loose table image simply because I was picking up a lot of strong hands during the session and opening a high percentage of pots. The fact that I raised UTG showed some strength in my hand because I hadn't been raising UTG very often however (but not sure if the players at the table are paying close attention to that or not).
3/5 NL JJ 3bet pot tough spot on turn.. Quote

      
m