This hand took place earlier today, and was confused by the action.

V1: Slightly Loose reg but tight for the table, in mid-late 50's but does play middle suited connectors fast and loose. Has approx. $600 in chips.

Hero: Known by most of the regs, but they aren't very familiar with my play. Sat down with $200 and worked up to $900 on 2 double-ups catching 2 squeezes on my EP raise. Been aggressive and have shown only winning hands.

1 limp to V1 in MP1 and he raises to $20. I call from MP2 with TT. CO and EP Limper calls. $80 in the pot and 4 players.

Flop: 8h Th Jd

V1 bets $25. He does under bet flops fairly often with a wide range of hands. I raise to $75 to get chasers out of the pot. CO and EP fold. V1 calls.

Turn: 3c

V1 leads out for $100. This is where I got confused. His flat and lead out tells me he has a made hand and likely not on a draw. My experience against him is that he would shove monster draws on the flop and go c/f on most drawing hands. I honestly don't believe he will fold if I shove. Hand Range I had him on: set, 2 pair, (unlikely: KQhh, A9hh, q9, 97 since I think he 3 bets flop).

Hero Calls? What would you do here?

River: 8s

V1 leads out for $125. My read right now is that he was playing T8 or J8 suited and just made 8's full. My line is weak for my hand, but seems transparent that I flopped a set and river a full house. Hero shoves and was snap called by V1 and he had JJ.

thread got moved and couldn't find it right away

Whatever he had on turn didn't seem to improve on river.

1) Raise flop bigger. $100-$125 is still getting called by 9x or KQ or Jx or 2 pair or whatever
2) Raise/get it in. We lose to Q9 and JJ and stack T8, J8, JT and charge all his combo draws. (Pair + hearts, oesd + pair, etc)
3) easy shove. cooler, reload / move on

Eh, calling your raise and then leading out again screams that he has a big hand. Your problem then becomes how big. That board should scare any over pair, which starts weighting me towards sets.
By the river, I am c/cing.

soon as flop hits, put foot all way to the floor on the gas and keep it there.

Is this even close, easy shove on the river (unless the guy shows you his JJ or 88 and LIEK WTF he won't do that)

next time, don't play at the Chesterfield, seems like its filled with bad beats and coolers.

Set over set happens (so do flopped straights)

Bigger raise on the flop (and never fold)

The main focus is the flop call of the raise out of position and leading out on the turn. If V allows me to continue leading on the turn, this is an easy all-in.

I thought 2 things were possible after he led the turn; either Villain has a big made hand and made sure the turn whiffed before getting heavily committed or he's trying to price himself into the river.


What range do you put on a reg who makes this bet on the turn?
Would you do this when the turn blanks with 2 pair?
What if this move was done when a scare card comes out? (3rd heart, 4 to a straight)

As played, I would think something is wrong by the river.
Realistically, I am raising the flop more, and probably ending up all in on the turn.

there are quite a few times where i haggle with my online friends about pulling back a bit when deeper and i know the raising ranges of my villains live are very very narrow, BUT this isnt one of those spots.

At even 200bb deep we would be very hard pressed to get away from ttt here.

Ask yourself what would villain do with TJ here, or 888, or J8? We never can be mindreaders well enough to know the difference between these hands except for the most extreme nits who never ever ever raise/3bet with pure cold nuts. And these nits are kind of few and far between. Almost everyone can raise these flops with all these hands.

Its really pointless IMO to try and eek out super thin folds. When wrong and folding, its a huge mistake. When wrong and calling its not as huge, since all the villains are calling always in this spot and NEVER make the mistake of folding the best TTT hands here. Therefore if you fold in this spot, you have now created a situation where hero makes an occasional blunderous mistake, but all the live ones never make this mistake. This is extremely bad for heros overall reciprocity/flux of expectation.

this is easily how some weak/tight individuals who dont do well in games wonder why so often? Its because they put in money and fold (more than they should ) and thus bleed off money more so than their live counterparts.

I can't ever see folding here - like never, ever - but I think questioning whether or not to shove the river is reasonable. I probably would have got myself in deep enough here on the flop/turn to get stacked, but that bet on the river coupled with the turn smells like we are in value town, population us.

Only hands that beat you are JJ and 88 (4 card combinations). J8 and T8 are both easily in his range and they snap call your shove (8 card combinations). Maybe you can discount them because of the raise pf?

In any case, shove river seems best and is +EV most of the time. Sorry you ran into a cooler.

id raise turn.

as played, all in. if he has 4 of a kind, just a cooler. if he has JJ, just a cooler. if he has a smaller boat, your letting him off easy by only calling.