Stacks are ~350

MP2 asian 30ish guy with glasses who has been quiet so far but has only been at the table for maybe 3 orbits

Fishy reg limps UTG,

Hero makes it $15 in MP with A J
MP2 calls. UTG calls.

Flop is K J 5 ($45)
UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets $25, UTG calls, Hero calls

Turn is
A ($120)
UTG checks, Hero bets $75, MP2 makes it $150, UTG folds, Hero calls

River is 7 ($420)

Hero checks, MP2 all in for ~170, Hero folds

Have to call that river for $170 into $590. Calling all day

Meh, definitely calling for that price. Expect to see 55 some percentage of the time but he has other value hands that play this way that we beat...KJ

Not sure about the turn lead, and then you got raised. Maybe I'm a massive nit but I just fold to the turn raise. You're very much at the bottom of your value range and MP2 is saying he's got you crushed.

Just muck the turn. The raise is never a bluff and he wouldn't do it if he were as weak as KJ. It's 55/QT/AK/maybe AJ all day.

Calling turn and folding river is inconsistent because if beaten on the turn you don't have odds for the call. Make your decision OTT and commit.

Turn id just check...

Ap calling turn raise and river jam is pretty -EV, he has a bunch of QT/55, some AK and rarely JJ

V could have AdXd and play it this way, especially AdQd and AdTd.

C/f flop why over call here?

Wow didn't see the person calling the bet. Yeah flop should be a x/f

UTG is fishy with a wide range and MP2 is betting in position after 2 checks, could be betting worse jacks here or draws or bluffs. What is wrong with calling smallish flop bet?

Your turn lead is bizarre to me and makes this a lot stranger. I would have just check/called 3 streets.

As played, I think he could potentially be raising worse hands OTT but it's not likely. I'd still call give the price.

Main reason I led turn is because UTG is a fish that would call wide with gutshots or whatever and this turn card probably gets checked through a lot

Flop is a super obvious call, we're getting laid 4-1 and might have the best hand.

Edit: Checking turn is also out of the question to me, you can't expect MP2 to bet your hand for you. Completely mystified as to why anyone would even suggest checking, you probably have the best hand, they can call with plenty worse, and MP2 is never bluffing and rarely value betting worse when checked to.

my default line here is to x/c turn and happy to x/c river.
if he checks back turn i will lead river.

however, as i responded to some threads, a few guys indicated its better to bet fold turn but with this min raise, i dont know if i can fold with that price. i rather control the pot (avoid getting raised OTT) and go to showdown cheap, though weakish/passive.

This seems sound to me.

Given this dynamic, it might be a good spot to CR the turn, after the fairly weakish bet and the call from the poor UTG player.

It's sort of hard for the more competent player, who bet, to have any monsters besides 55. (He should 3b KK and often JJ or AK. You hold a J and KJ could fold to a raise pre, as should K5 and J5) You are applying a lot of pressure because the UTG player should also concern him a little, if he has a hand like KQ.

You might get through both, but you also might wind up HU against a worse hand vs UTG and fold out a better one.

Bet folding is a concept i am working on a bit.

As i understand, in this type of situation by check/calling we are giving up massive value where the turn is checked back, we allow diamonds and other pair+draw hands to get there.

By betting for value with this strong a hand we will extract maximum value from hands that can call that may check back the turn. And the times we get raised here and have to fold will be far outweighed by the value we get by betting ourselves..

Basically being cool with being raised off our hand occasionally when we are beat and not going into check/call and control the pot mode all the time because we are scared of this happening.

Did i pass?

Lol

giving this an A+

Yuk how is calling the flop call super obvious? We have no redraws, and if we are behind we have 5 outs at best.
If we are ahead then our opponents have a lot of equity, and we won’t know what Turn cards improve them. This means that if we face another bet on the turn we could easily fold the best hand if we fold, or easily be paying off against a king or a made hand if we call.
So we’re essentially just hoping the turn checks through.
But now on the river the first position player could bet out with a range of Kings and misses draws, and again were lost because even if we decide the call here is profitable we still have to worry about a guy behind us..

id just call, down, obviously not liking it he could have q-10 or set.

but two pairs, pot odds.

i would also kind of lean towards check calling the turn. i think leading is fine, but check calling kind of helps us not get stack sometimes.

I would have folded preflop (fairly meh hand in too early a postion, so really easy to end up OOP in multiway bloated pots, which is basically what happened).

I would have cbet the flop. Decent chance our hand is best, there is a bunch of worse that can call, if we are best we're decently vulnerable, we can set our own price and bet/fold, can give ourselves options on the turn (especially if we end up in position), etc.

I'm either/or on the turn. Leading prevents some draws from getting there for free and we can get value from some worse hands. But betting sometimes gets us blown off draws to huge hands against slightly worse huge hands (like we did here), plus a draw got there, plus we lose all really weak hands with this overcard. Kinda fine with a check/call, but if betting definitely folding.

I don't get to the river (and we had to make our commitment decision on the turn with this lol left back). Very few people raise worse on the turn against a preflop raiser who donks into 2 opponents on this type of board, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Ohhhhh

+100

I don't really disagree with any of this, but we're getting laid 4 to 1. If the turn does check through, there's a solid chance we have the best hand, and it will also suggest that our outs are probably live (because the turn never checks through if MP2 has 55, say), so if we don't have the best hand we at least get two draws at a 5-out draw. I'm getting laid 4 to 1 on the call and am hoping when I call that the turn checks through say about 1/3rd of the time. There's some protection in the fact that there's a third guy in the pot, makes it harder for MP2 to just blindly barrel.

I will say that it's annoying that our ace out also completes the QT draw and this leads to situations like OTT, but I still think it's a call. The main point of the call is the hope that we have the best hand, the draw is some backup equity.

These are not tough regs who are looking to barrel multiple streets and outplay you.