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Old 08-20-2016, 12:34 AM   #1
WiWaise
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2nd pair 3bet pot

I'm a pretty bad HoldEm player but probably decent enough to beat the fishy round I'm playing in. We are 4 regs and 5 whales on the table.

Blinds are 1/2. Im 500 Euros deep, Villain has me covered. Villain is a decent reg. No online crusher or something like that but plays reasonable and tight.

Villain opens MP1 for 5 (the table is extremly loose passive, so I exclude pretty much all premium hands), Fish calls MP2. I folds around to me in the bb. I have KcQd. I make it 22 because I think I can put much pressure on his mediocre hands on many flops. Villain calls, fish folds.
Thoughts about 3betting/flatting?

Flop is AcQh5c, I cbet 25 with the intention of barreling off on club turns, probably giving up on blanks. What are your thoughts on 3 barreling on blanks? Is that too spewy? I have a fairly nitty image. I have some history with villain. He tends to almost always fold against triple barrels by me.

Anyways, he raises to 57. In his shoes we don't have a raising range here, right? He's probably limping 55 pre, so he is only repping AQ which I block. But he is not the spewy type and he should know that my range smashes that flop. Calling with the intention of bluffing clubs and 3betting flop crossed my mind, but seemed to spewy all in all.

I ended up folding. Is that to weak?
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Old 08-20-2016, 01:39 AM   #2
bluffcity
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Re: 2nd pair 3bet pot

Fine with preflop 3bet if you give villain a wide opening range. Okay with flatting too as these are passive opponents. Flop is an easy check call. By checking you open up villains range when he bets as he can now bet his air. Against an extremely passive opponent you can cbet because they play fit or fold anyway so just cbet and fold them off their equity. As played i'm not sure if you're cbetting for value or as a bluff and you need a clear plan whenever you make a bet. When villain raises here I would fold. Your range is uncapped on a board that smacks your 3bet range and he's still raising you. Furthermore you hold the Kc which reduces his fd combos. I expect nothing less than 2p from villain. Easy fold.
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Old 08-20-2016, 01:46 AM   #3
WinZip4Lyfe
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Re: 2nd pair 3bet pot

This is the wrong hand and wrong position to try and take these guys to poker school. Wait till you pick up a decent hand from CO or BTN.

In a loose passive environment like this one, I take that to mean they may not 4-bet AK/AQ/QQ for value against you. That means there's a fairly good chance of KQo being dominated going to the flop. That means there are still way too many combinations of AK/AQ (15) even holding blockers. So "I eliminate premiums" is a logical fallacy.

If he has AK/AQ, he's not folding on a blank runout. So your only chance of bluffing him off the hand is if a third spade comes off. It's only going to come around 19% of the time on the turn, and then you either have to donk or check-call turn just to get the chance to rep a flush on the river.

65% of the time the guy just takes his hand to the felt, the other 35% of the time you might be able to bluff him, but he may just not be able to fold.

What if a spade comes on the turn, you check, and he bets, and you checkraise all in? He'll look down at AQ for example, and think "Hey, I have a whopping 4 outs to hit a full house on the river" and still call.

It's a very expensive bluff, right? So this is a good fold, no need to bluff off your stack in a spot you probably shouldn't have picked anyway.
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Old 08-20-2016, 01:54 AM   #4
MamaRolex
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Re: 2nd pair 3bet pot

In a raised pot playing KQo is very difficult especially with an Ace on the flop. I suspect you are wasting your money betting into that flop. Your hand is dominated and I suspect second pair is worthless in this situation. Actually second pair the way you play it is a big liability.

JTs and KQs should be the bottom of your rage and even that only in a volume pot in position.
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Old 08-20-2016, 04:16 AM   #5
WiWaise
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Re: 2nd pair 3bet pot

Ty guys. I don't like 3betting in retrospective. I think it's not completly horrible, since villain probably would raise his monsters bigger as I mentioned. Normally I would check/decide flop but I was watching a Phil Galfond video yesterday where he was cbetting in a similar spot. But the concepts he's talking about don't really apply to a soft live game table.
We just don't really accomplish much by betting. If were ahead, he's not folding his flush draws anyways, his gutters have low equity and everything else is nearly dead.

Also my range isn't necessarily capped here since I would check AA and Ax here pretty often. So just call pre in the future and as played check/decide. Guess I was burning money here.

He told me he had AQ afterwards. What do you think about his raise? Should he even have a raising range here?
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