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2nd nuts in 4 bet pot, facing weird line 2nd nuts in 4 bet pot, facing weird line

01-19-2019 , 08:19 PM
1/1/2 V is young asian kid, him and several other young guys at table have been talking GTO, ranges, Doug Polk vids, etc...I've seen him do some weird things like over shove turn w AK no pair no draw, but also overshove riv w quads...

H is UTG +1, Ef stacks $250.

UTG opens $6

H has QQ and makes it $30

V is next to act and makes it $60

H has been playing, pretty tight and has a good winning image

H calls (can I fold here? 4 bets are so rare in this game, but the dynamic w this player, plus the min raise, seems like I have to call)

Flop: HU $120 6K2

H checks, V bets $25 lol ... at this point I'm pretty confused about what to do, this tiny bet is very polarized...I'm kinda thinking this kid may be just ****ing around w some advanced strat from youtube vids... H calls

Turn: $170 6K2T H checks, V bets $50. Now pot is $220, $50 to call. H has 2nd nuts and if H calls pot will be $270 w like $125 behind. Obviously V has a lot of nuts in range (as does H)... Thoughts on this street? H decides to call.

Riv is brick H checks and V shoves so now pot is $395, $125 to call. We need to win 25% to B.E. Do we have to fold? If V only has nuts w combos of AK and AA, he has 6, so needs to turn 2 made hands into bluffs for call to be neutral. If he is 4-betting lighter he may have other combos w A but also likely more bluffs. If V is truly thinking player he should recognize H has many nuts and may not ever bluff here...thoughts?
2nd nuts in 4 bet pot, facing weird line Quote
01-19-2019 , 09:18 PM
Grunch from title alone: GII.

Post grunch edit: raise flop.

AP, it doesn't matter if you shove turn or not, it still has to all go in.
2nd nuts in 4 bet pot, facing weird line Quote
01-20-2019 , 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Grunch from title alone: GII.

Post grunch edit: raise flop.

AP, it doesn't matter if you shove turn or not, it still has to all go in.
Why? You’re just folding out low equity hands and never folding a better hand.

Calling down all the way. These “GTO” players are almost always terrible and overly aggressive.
2nd nuts in 4 bet pot, facing weird line Quote
01-20-2019 , 01:10 AM
You have the best possible hand you could have given your line (I assume you would have c/r'ed turn or led river with the A). Therefore you have to call. Pretty basic stuff.
2nd nuts in 4 bet pot, facing weird line Quote
01-20-2019 , 02:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmingupstream
1/1/2 V is young asian kid, him and several other young guys at table have been talking GTO, ranges, Doug Polk vids, etc...I've seen him do some weird things like over shove turn w AK no pair no draw, but also overshove riv w quads...

H is UTG +1, Ef stacks $250.

UTG opens $6

H has QQ and makes it $30

V is next to act and makes it $60

H has been playing, pretty tight and has a good winning image

H calls (can I fold here? 4 bets are so rare in this game, but the dynamic w this player, plus the min raise, seems like I have to call)

Flop: HU $120 6K2

H checks, V bets $25 lol ... at this point I'm pretty confused about what to do, this tiny bet is very polarized...I'm kinda thinking this kid may be just ****ing around w some advanced strat from youtube vids... H calls

Turn: $170 6K2T H checks, V bets $50. Now pot is $220, $50 to call. H has 2nd nuts and if H calls pot will be $270 w like $125 behind. Obviously V has a lot of nuts in range (as does H)... Thoughts on this street? H decides to call.

Riv is brick H checks and V shoves so now pot is $395, $125 to call. We need to win 25% to B.E. Do we have to fold? If V only has nuts w combos of AK and AA, he has 6, so needs to turn 2 made hands into bluffs for call to be neutral. If he is 4-betting lighter he may have other combos w A but also likely more bluffs. If V is truly thinking player he should recognize H has many nuts and may not ever bluff here...thoughts?
Not folding to this 4 bet. Price is too good and more importantly, we have queens. Not thrilled about this situation though.

I think this bet is very not polarized actually. I'm fine with the bet from his POV if he intends to hammer a blank turn. For you, just call. No reason to think you need to bluff yet.

After turn the EV of check call down and check shove I'd imagine is roughly the same. Like you go all in or just call it off, you lose the same to the Ad. Going all in probably wins more from JdJ or if he tried to make some bad turn bet with KK. Calling gives him a chance to blast off bluffs if he can have them. I expect him to do the latter more than the former, so I prefer a call.
2nd nuts in 4 bet pot, facing weird line Quote
01-20-2019 , 04:16 AM
AP you've under-repped the whole way have to call, poker sucks sometimes sure he'll have the A a decent amount but if you're talking about a kid that is supposedly playing "GTO" and balancing his ranges with a decent number of bluffs, this is a spot to do it against a player (hero) that hasn't shown any aggression post flop. I actually like the call on the turn, but by not shoving here you're still committing to calling on the river. If you're going to be folding the second nuts on the river, it makes you pretty exploitable against a V not afraid to make a move on you IMO.

Last edited by PackerStacker; 01-20-2019 at 04:23 AM.
2nd nuts in 4 bet pot, facing weird line Quote
01-20-2019 , 04:36 AM
call flop call turn call river
2nd nuts in 4 bet pot, facing weird line Quote
01-20-2019 , 09:33 AM
$30 seems a bit large

Rest is fine if u snap called/reloaded/moved on
2nd nuts in 4 bet pot, facing weird line Quote
01-20-2019 , 12:55 PM
Don't fold pre. As played call flop, call turn, and check/call river
2nd nuts in 4 bet pot, facing weird line Quote
01-21-2019 , 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Grunch from title alone: GII.

Post grunch edit: raise flop.

AP, it doesn't matter if you shove turn or not, it still has to all go in.
are we raising the flop then folding if he comes over the top? not sure if I like that, but also don't like calling a flop 3 bet...

i considered ck/shoving the turn but figured it's much better to call because i don't want to fold out his bluffs.

Spoiler:
i called river and said "you have AA w A?" and he did in fact have AA . After hand I felt like I played it poorly and he played it very well, mostly because I was confused w his bet sizing, and also I felt like my hand was a little bit face up. Seems like everyone who has responded thinks I can't get away on any street, so I guess I feel better.
2nd nuts in 4 bet pot, facing weird line Quote

      
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