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00 downswing and hand analysis 00 downswing and hand analysis

09-27-2019 , 05:47 PM
Hey guys this is my first post on this forum. I've been playing poker seriously for about 3 months, I'm currently grinding 2-3 trying to build a bankroll to build up to 3-5. My first month I booked a profit of $700 with 8 hours of play. The second month I profited $1800 with 51 hours of play but this month has been a complete **** show. I have been consistently running up large stacks early in my session and just getting destroyed on the river for $800+ dollar pots. Obviously this is an indication that I'm lacking in the deepstack game and probably playing hands I shouldn't be. I've only booked 3 winning sessions this month despite breaking my record multiple times for the largest stack I've accumulated in a 2-3 game ($1900). This month I have played 70 hours and lost $2000 so I'm now pretty much break even since I started keeping track of my stats.

Here's a hand I played yesterday and I wanted to know if there is anything severely wrong with how I played it, or if you guys just want to give me some general pointers I'd appreciate it a lot.

Hero $800 (BTN) opens over one limper $15 QJo
Villain $600 (BB) 3B to $40, limper folds I call
Flop ($83) KQ3 rainbow
Villain leads $50, I call
Turn ($183): Q
villain checks I bet $75, villain calls
River ($333): T
Villain checks, I bet $200 not really thinking what I get value from, at this point the only possible hand that I think might pay me off is AA but even then that might be kinda loose in a 200BB pot.
Villain all in for $275 I snap call and he shows TT

After the hand I realized that my bet on the river was pretty dumb as the only hand that calls me off there is KQ, AQ,KK, TT. As I said before the only value I get is from AA and AK.

I think I played the hand pretty good until the river. QJo is probably good to call a relatively small 3b in position but clearly I had him crushed until the river.
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTown97
Hey guys this is my first post on this forum. I've been playing poker seriously for about 3 months, I'm currently grinding 2-3 trying to build a bankroll to build up to 3-5. My first month I booked a profit of $700 with 8 hours of play. The second month I profited $1800 with 51 hours of play but this month has been a complete **** show. I have been consistently running up large stacks early in my session and just getting destroyed on the river for $800+ dollar pots. Obviously this is an indication that I'm lacking in the deepstack game and probably playing hands I shouldn't be. I've only booked 3 winning sessions this month despite breaking my record multiple times for the largest stack I've accumulated in a 2-3 game ($1900). This month I have played 70 hours and lost $2000 so I'm now pretty much break even since I started keeping track of my stats.

Here's a hand I played yesterday and I wanted to know if there is anything severely wrong with how I played it, or if you guys just want to give me some general pointers I'd appreciate it a lot.

Hero $800 (BTN) opens over one limper $15 QJo
Villain $600 (BB) 3B to $40, limper folds I call
Flop ($83) KQ3 rainbow
Villain leads $50, I call
Turn ($183): Q
villain checks I bet $75, villain calls
River ($333): T
Villain checks, I bet $200 not really thinking what I get value from, at this point the only possible hand that I think might pay me off is AA but even then that might be kinda loose in a 200BB pot.
Villain all in for $275 I snap call and he shows TT

After the hand I realized that my bet on the river was pretty dumb as the only hand that calls me off there is KQ, AQ,KK, TT. As I said before the only value I get is from AA and AK.

I think I played the hand pretty good until the river. QJo is probably good to call a relatively small 3b in position but clearly I had him crushed until the river.
Right there is a big problem. People at these stakes 3 bet such a very tight and very strong range that QJ is going to be in big big trouble most of the time. Just fold to the 3 bet and move on.
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 06:02 PM
Based on your hand, I would say you probably call 3bets too much and don't plan your bet sizings.

Unless BB is a spewy aggro, I would just let QJo go. Dominated broadways can get you into big trouble in 3bet pots.

AP, I would bet larger OTT to setup a 1/2p jam OTR

Last edited by HomelessPizza; 09-27-2019 at 06:10 PM.
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Right there is a big problem. People at these stakes 3 bet such a very tight and very strong range that QJ is going to be in big big trouble most of the time. Just fold to the 3 bet and move on.
You're right, in most cases I'd fold. Sorry I left out my knowledge of this player but he's relatively loose and he had already 3bet my last 2 opens so I thought the looser flat was justified, plus I was in position and only had to call $25 more
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 06:04 PM
Open is fine. Fold to a 3! against almost all Vs.

You touched upon it yourself. This hand will be coolered way more than cooler. If you outflop something like TT, usually you won't win much.

Flop: he bet more than half pot. Fold. It seems like you generally don't think much about sizing. You only beat bluffs. And even if he is bluffing, you will probably have to fold the turn if he continues. He will often have outs.And he probably isn't bluffing.

Turn: Fine.

River: Not completely terrible, but you bet too big. Your hand looks very strong now. AK and AA can probably fold to that bet. You now pretty much have to call the last $75, which sucks. You will usually lose $75 when beat and almost never win it when ahead.
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomelessPizza
Based on your hand, I would say you probably call 3bets too much and plan your bet sizings.

Unless BB is a spewy aggro, I would just let QJo go. Dominated broadways can get you into big trouble in 3bet pots.

AP, I would bet larger OTT or just jam since stack sizes are awkward.
The last hand with him heads up he three bet me with K3s so I thought it was a justified call
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTown97
The last hand with him heads up he three bet me with K3s so I thought it was a justified call
So 4 bet him then. Calling 3 bets with hands like QJ is asking for trouble.
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2
Open is fine. Fold to a 3! against almost all Vs.

You touched upon it yourself. This hand will be coolered way more than cooler. If you outflop something like TT, usually you won't win much.

Flop: he bet more than half pot. Fold. It seems like you generally don't think much about sizing. You only beat bluffs. And even if he is bluffing, you will probably have to fold the turn if he continues. He will often have outs.And he probably isn't bluffing.

Turn: Fine.

River: Not completely terrible, but you bet too big. Your hand looks very strong now. AK and AA can probably fold to that bet. You now pretty much have to call the last $75, which sucks. You will usually lose $75 when beat and almost never win it when ahead.
OP said the guy check raised all in to $275 but according to his stack sizes it wasnt another $75 to call. It was another $235.
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
OP said the guy check raised all in to $275 but according to his stack sizes it wasnt another $75 to call. It was another $235.
No it was only another $75, sorry if my wording was confusing the stack sizes on the river were V: $275, H: $475. I think the stacks were more like ~700, 500 at the start

Last edited by DTown97; 09-27-2019 at 06:19 PM.
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
So 4 bet him then. Calling 3 bets with hands like QJ is asking for trouble.
+1
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
So 4 bet him then. Calling 3 bets with hands like QJ is asking for trouble.
That's a good point, against this particular player that would've worked. 4-bets are pretty much non-existent at the tables I play at. a normal open is 6BB so 4 Bets usually just mean you're getting in 100BB so it pretty much means QQ+
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTown97
No it was only another $75, sorry if my wording was confusing the stack sizes on the river were V: $275, H: $475
The wording wasnt confusing but the OP says that villain started with $600 and you with $800.

Preflop = $40
Flop =$50
Turn =$75

That leaves $435 in villains stack for the river and you cover him. If the starting stacks are wrong that will often change the proper way to play the hand.
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
The wording wasnt confusing but the OP says that villain started with $600 and you with $800.

Preflop = $40
Flop =$50
Turn =$75

That leaves $435 in villains stack for the river and you cover him. If the starting stacks are wrong that will often change the proper way to play the hand.
Yeah you're right the actual stack sizes were 440 and I had at least 200 more than he did so around $700. My mistake
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-27-2019 , 07:21 PM
Fold to the 3-bet. Ez game.
00 downswing and hand analysis Quote
09-28-2019 , 06:52 AM
Hi, welcome to the forum. You've gotten some good advice on this hand.

I'm going to focus on your "downswing." Based on your history, you played maybe 2 sessions in the first month and started playing much more the second month. Your intersession highs have gotten larger but you losses have gotten higher too in the third month. While I can't be sure, there are a couple of things that lots of other players run into that would explain what is happening to you.

First, your villains are starting to recognize you and are learning how you play. When a brand new player comes in, most regulars just assign them to a "type" and try to play against that. The better players start observing your play. They learn what your bets mean and where your pain points are (or lack of them). Then they exploit them. You'll find that you aren't getting called down light and that you keep running into the top of the their range when behind.

Next, you had a great 2 month run. I suspect that your play has gotten looser as time went on. You're winning, so obviously you have a big advantage on the field. So you perhaps unconsiously start playing more hands. In addition, you're spending more time in the poker room. Folding is pretty boring in live poker, so to keep yourself entertained you start playing more.

The third is that you don't have some of the fundamentals down. For example, you said that your call with QJo was justified because you saw the villain 3bet with K3s. K3s is a 58/42 favorite against QJo. That is important in that the difference between winning and losing is in the smaller edges. All gambing comes down to recognizing 60/40 situations and making sure you're on the 60 side. Anyone can win if they have AA pf. It is called a heater.

My suggestion is to start reading through this forum. The stickies contain the accumulated wisdom of many poker players. If someone started studying (not just reading) them, they could beat LLSNL handily. Supplement that with read and responding to the hand historys posted. You've got a year or two of work ahead of you. But at the end, you'll be moving past 3/5. In addition, if you don't have Equilab, download it and start playing with it. There are no excuses for not having it, it is free.
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