1/2

Hero (900): Lagtard: running hot making a lot of hands and pretty much running over table. Haven't been caught getting to far out of line, but playing super high vpip (dealt great cards all night)...squeezed alot, twice into AA:....once with AQhh, other time I didn't show.

Villain400) Mawg, fairly passive pre, kinda on loose side... ABC postflop....hasn't opened a whole lot. Couple notes: he bet for value 2nd pair a few times and ran into top pair. Made some really light calls on river, where he couldn't beat raggy hands. But is running way above EV

2 limps
V raises to $16 in HJ (first time he used this sizing).

CO calls (loose passive)
SB calls (loose crappy)

Hero in BB looks at 99 and calls.

Utg+1 calls
Utg +2 goes all in for $39

V1 calls
CO calls
SB folds

Hero? $140ish in pot

Utg, CO both have about $200

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I'm cool with either option.

Wait... why do we have all that info on V when the hand isn't revolving around him?

The pot should be $165 actually. Set mining should be pretty profitable here as it'll be really easy to get stacks in with such low SPR & we could likely stack more than 1 person. I'm not sure what I'd estimate our average win at when we do flop a set, but my gut says that it's probably more than scooping the $165 with some odd call/re-jam line adjusted for the times we're called & realize our equity vs their calling ranges.

He wants to know if it's ok to backshove this deep when V raise-flats and hero reps not much.

Ya, your right. Forgot to add a $16 call. Pot is $165

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Actually would be repping my exact hand. Middling pocket pair.

But, with my laggy image, people have impossible time ranging me.

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Either calling or raising is fine. If you're raising you may as well shove. You don't represent much more than you actually have when you raise, but sometimes that doesn't matter. For a big shove, sometimes V's don't really think about what you have other than that you made a big bet, and often Vs with a big ace don't want to race for a huge pot anyway. Very V-dependent.

In fairness, if he was thinking player (he was not)...Then AA and KK could definitely be in my range.

As even with 99, I knew short stack was likely shoving after limping with $39. I would have likely flatted both those hands. In hopes of shoving into $150 pot, or have V shove.

But he is never on that level. So he likely discounted me having any premium hand.

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Hero raises to $150. Folds to V, who asked dealer if it was legal to raise. Dealer confirms it was.

I don't believe V can have QQ, KK or AA. As he hadn't played Trapp at all. And wouldn't want to go multi-day to flop with such a strong hand.

Range him on 10's, JJ, AK, AQ. Expect all others to get out of way. (I have more than enough equity vs other players ranges).

V shoves all in. It is now $221 to call. CO folds and it is heads up.

Pot is $465 (In game I had miscalculated it a little, had it at $420).


Question is. What do you feel V range is here?

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He may not mind going multiway with AA, as more callers equals more equity when you have the best hand. I would put his range at TT+ and AK, but I am not good at ranging. Curious to see what others have to say.

If you're going to raise here you need to shove. First off, it does the maximum to dissuade V from calling with big unpaired cards, as a lot of Vs do not want to flip for $400 stacks, as even if they're right and you have an underpair to their AQ or whatever they're not a big favorite. Second, by leaving a significant amount of money behind, V can think they have fold equity here and shove, as happened here.

Hard to know what V's range is any more as this is a weird hand. I'd say something like TT, JJ, maybe QQ and AK, maybe AQ.

I like proof. Any math behind that statement.

I think raise to $150 is instantly profitable. As I am getting folds way more 50% of time.

Plus still leaves me room to fold to shove. Depending on my reads.

My image isn't getting AK, or AQ to fold. Not sure about 10-JJ. Not sure what opponent is thinking.

Just thought it was unlikely he would ship after flatting.

I did get a tell he was extremely uncomfortable after he shipped and I was in tank.

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don't know what statement you want proof for. But I don't think getting folds 50% of the time is enough to make this bluff profitable, because all you're doing is isolating the all in. Not like you take the pot down if you get a bunch of folds.

Then we are risking $16 to win $165...and 99 has a lot of equity vs desperation shove. And we get to fold out a ton of overcards.

Flatting and set mining is obviously plus EV here.

Raising pot is also obviously +EV here.

With 2 good choices, I wasn't sure what shoving accomplished. That raising to $150 didn't.

I expect V to sigh call both Ak, AQ,....if we can't get those hands to fold. Is shove worth it?

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Interesting you say your cool with either option. Then make this statement.

Make it sound like I am idiot to get opinions.

Tough spot, especially with Lag image.

Truth is. There are almost no good lags below 5/10. And very few that ever post on this site.

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The one thing that is absolutely correct in the words provided so far is that if you choose to raise, your raise size needs to be the maximum wager that is allowed in your gambling establishment.

Yeah there was no point to raising less than a shove.

Also... a passive V asking whether your raise was lawful then shoving himself? Massive strength tell. I don't think you can eliminate QQ+ from his range at all as you want to do.

Haven't done the math on combos, but I range V on TT+, AK.

With Villain asking if your raise was legal, is it possible that he thought he himself couldn't raise the $39? That could put AA / KK / QQ back in his range.

You said $16 raise was new for him -- what was his typical pfr size before that?

With your image, the flat / 4-bet to 150 looks really suspicious and I think a lot of villains would happily jam TT-QQ here.

AQ seems like a stretch for someone who is passive pre. You basically admit that every hand that beats you or flips with you is not foldingnto 150. Does he ever call or shove with worse?

I think I agree with call the shortie or shove since TT-QQ *might* get away if the bet is big enough to scramble his ranging and panic-fold

So Aggro! I really meant nothing disparaging at all. I was just responding to Quantum's question regarding why V was most important here. I really am cool with raise or call either way and think it's a very good question bc the dead money is protected/concerns deep V might be crafty enough to be very strong here, both of which are important levels to break down on here/get opinions.

I personally like the cram.

Why is cram better than raise to $150?

Anybody?

Seems to be consensus. But haven't heard reason why?



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Because continuing ranges are elastic to sizing. Meaning each additional $ wagered is an additional x% of fold equity achieved. Its not totally linear but it is elastic.

And we need to be absolultely certain we fold out hands like AQs or AK and even TT/JJ.

People make really really dumb continue decisions when faced with smaller sizing, they arent thinking about the fact they are committed on all flops or anything like that. They just think "oh so like $100 more?"

Thanks, for range opinion.

Hand really boils down to it. (As most hands do)

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This is rec player. I stand by my read, he would have jammed AA,KK.

Don't think he was talented enough to pull out the whole, is this legal raise angle.

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there's an additional psychological element as well, since if V thinks you're bluffing, he is much more likely to continue if he can shove and potentially get a fold, rather than calling off a huge bet where he still loses a lot even if you're bluffing.

Not sure I completely understand this.



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