Villian is loose passive player. I didn't have too many reads on him at the time except that he check/calls a lot, limps a ton. Not too aggressive. I haven't seen him check raise.

My Image: I've been raising a lot hands and winning without showdown up to this point with some double barrels.

Effective stacks ~700

Preflop: 2 limpers, Hero raises to 30 from CO with AdAh. Both limpers call from EP somewhere.

Flop ($97): KsQs9c

Check, Villain donks for $65, Hero ????

I'm having trouble figuring out what a typical loose passive fish's donking range is here. Is it mostly for value with the wet board? Or maybe he's trying to draw at the flush/straight cheaply? AsXs, KT-KQ, Q9-QJ? 99-TT, some JJ (he might raise that PF).

Folding seems pretty weak here.

If I call, do I just fold to the double barrel (depending on bet size)? I don't think many passive players are double barreling air.

I could raise for value (assuming he donks with some drawy hands), folding to any 3 bets he makes on the flop.

Looks like a pair with a gutterball to me

Check raise and lead the turn.

idk prolly fold, may be too nitty. If I had the A of spades I would call.

The first check was a limper, I was in position this hand.

I misread the hand. I would just flat and reevaluate, if he's playing Kx this way or a flush draw, let him continue to bluff at you.

I find donk flop bets on wet boards from loose-passive players generally to be top pair type hands that don't want to see the flop checked around. Problem here is that a lot of his top pair hands are either two pair now or have a gutshot. Don't think he has a flush draw here. I probably just flat the flop, bet any safe card, which (assuming first limper folds) is anything below a 9, and check/evaluate a card above a nine.

Call and reevaluate turn.

its funny i had this hand play out earlier today
i was the donk and i had J-10
and took it down

If this particular Villain is truly passive (if hes limping and check calling a lot this sounds like a safe classification) then he very rarely leading with naked draws. Will he lead with pair plus FDs or Combo Draws? I think his range is TP and better made hands.

As pointed out by previous responses most of his kings are 2pair or TP + GS. AK being the only one pair King that wont improve much, unless he'll play KXs. Then however, he rarely leads with an 8 kicker or worse if hes passive.

He has KQ, K9, and Q9 for two pair, any set (hes passive so we cant rule out even KK though we might discount 1 or 2 of the 3 combos), or JT.

What i would want to know is if he would lead with the hands im ahead of AK KT, KJ. If he would then I would raise close to min, and fold to any further agression. Since there are so few combos we are ahead of AND we are about 80% equity against KT KJ if the turn bricks out, then i would probably check back the turn, and bet for value if he checks the river.

Folding does seem weak, but we are against a passive player showing uncommon aggression. We are so far behind when we are, and there are so few combos hes leading with, I almost wanna find a fold. If i continue however, I am taking the line above.

this raising on this board would be terrible

not a good flop but you are ahead of his range and have a lot of ways to beat 2 pair

Backwards thinking. You don't want the bdfd, so many big draws are non existent with the spade sir

If we call to reevaluate the turn, then we are at the mercy of the LPPs bet sizing decision on the turn. If we flat he might think AK KJ and KT hands we beat are ahead and bet more than 65. If we min raise he'll likely flat these hands and check the turn. Thus we set the price when we are ahead. If He 3bets us OTF we can easily fold. If he flats our FR and leads the turn I think folding is safe. He is likely making sure the board doesn't flush by flatting the FR. In any case we get the same info for less. Unless of course we are planning to flat the flop and fold any turn lead. that would be atrocious.

If he flats our FR and checks the turn, I'm checking for pot control and to induce a call from AK KJ KT OTR. If we check behind the turn and he leads the river when we can call any non J or T river otherwise folding. If he checks the River, then i bet for value on a non J or T and check behind if the River is a J or T.

I would also like to see how you range this villain, that makes you think were ahead. I estimate us to have 40% against the following range:

AK, KJ, KT, KQ, K9, Q9, KK, QQ, 99, JT, A9ss, AJss, ATss, T9ss, J9ss.
I don't think passive players lead K8 or less into 3 others. If this villain will its much closer to us being ahead, IF you give him any KXss.

I think he's raising AK, KK, QQ, AJss, maybe ATss preflop. He did put in some raises pre iirc.

This was actually what I was thinking with regards to raising on the flop. We get to control the action going forward. I was torn between this vs just calling. I think they're calling with worse on the flop enough that this might be more +EV than calling.

Flat, reevaluate on turn. Not a great spot. Check back spades, call a reasonable non spade, non k, j, 10 turn bet.

I wouldn't completely discount QQ if this player is truly passive, I only included one combo of KK instead of the full 3. If we throw out KK and QQ that removes 4 combos of the 50 we are behind(now behind 46). Take out AJss and ATss, we are now racing against 3 instead of 5 combos.

We are still behind his leading range. But not so much that we can't get value from the 30 hand combos we are ahead of.

I still like the min raise, but definitely fold to further agression.

Why are we folding when spades hit? This guy is read as PASSIVE. Until a constant limp/call, check/call type shows me they will bet the come, I don't give them credit for doing so. There are only 5 monster draw combos that a passive player would concievably bet.

AJss ATss T9ss J9ss and A9ss. OP discounts AJ and ATss that leaves 3 combos of spades in his range when he leads.

I would be more afraid of straightening cards.

jmo.

To those saying flat and re-evaluate the turn...

1) What are you doing if the first guy x/r?

2) What turns are you looking for?

3) Are you trying to improve? If so, other then the A what card(s) improve your hand?

~~~~~~~

He lead into you with a 2/3 pot size bet and you think he's trying to draw... cheaply?

Seems like a pretty trivial fold to me.

Yeah, I guess maybe this guy is a calling station. When those types of players spring to betting, that's not a good sign for 1 pair. Maybe we should just fold. Ugh, hate folding AA in a 1 raise pot on the flop though.

My thoughts exactly but we have to train ourselves to fold BIG when passive players show uncommon aggro. Especially given the number Kx hands that we can beat versus the number of Kx hands that beat us when he donks.

Very good point. I was thinking more along the lines of him thinking maybe I'll check back turns or something. I've been barreling a lot so maybe he didn't want to deal with big flop + turn bets?

1. If the other guy x/r we fold. That player was also loose passive so I don't think he's making many moves here.

2. Non flush, any card < 9 won't improve the villain's hand here. If he bets out here, I'm probably folding, because (as has been stated) there are less Kx type hands he's valuing here than hands he's beating us with.

That being said, what is villain x/r here on the flop. I've been C-betting a lot so he can expect me to probably bet this flop if i have something and checking back air since the board is so drawy.

3. Nope. I don't think we can really improve aside from the non-flush completing ace. a K, 9 or q gets us two pair, but that's pretty much it. If he checks the paired board, hope to check to showdown with a better two pair.

If we had the A, then villain cannot have the NFD. If we don't have the A, villain can have the NFD. We are in great shape vs the NFD, so we should be slightly more inclined to continue if we don't have the A.

Anyway, I call and try to get to showdown. I pot control turn if possible, folding to a PSB but calling small bets.

1. We'll worry about that when it comes, probably less than a 10% chance of that occurring.

2. Anything that's not a king.

3. No, we're not trying to improve. We're calling to see if he keeps betting turn. If he does, we modify his range to stronger hands.

Also, if he's loose passive pre, it's possible he has AK.

Passive player rarely lead out. Imo, a min raise is viable option here - fold to a reraise. if he flats, I expect a check on the turn.