2/5NL loose passive game. Hand happen last week.



Hero 460 Button J10hh. I always raise when I enter pot. I been quite active.

V1 Covers UTG+2. somewhat a calling passive station. He said he laid down a straight on the flop when he had 54 with a flop of 876 when action got heavy. But he was calling down with TPNK and middle pairs but only small bets.

V2 400 UTG+1. weak tight passive. Have history and has betting tell.

UTG strattles. V1 raises to 30, V2 calls, I call, bb calls, and utg calls. Pot 150.


Flop Ah8h3c

V1 leads for 30 ( I know he is super weak with bet sizing ), V2 calls (His range: any pair, FD, and weak Ace). I know that since V1 is weak I decided to raise 120. Everyone folds and V2 hesistantly calls after 1 minute. (Pot 420)


Turn 6d

V2 checks. I shove all in for 310.


I raise the flop because I thought i could take it down on the flop with no resistance and mostly everyone looked ready to fold when flop came out.

One of my poker buddies thinks hand should have been played more passivedly. Your thoughts?

Your buddy is spot on here. Just call the flop.

It's a passive game, you're 6-way, there's an ace on the flop, and you're getting awesome odds to draw to the flush and a call can encourage more callers.

It's fairly likely someone has Ax (passive players call with lots of Ax pre), and it's incredibly *unlikely* that anyone will fold it.

That makes it a) very bad for you to semi-bluff raise and b) very good for you to call with great odds to hit.

You don't have the fold equity on the flop to raise. And it's a pretty huge mistake because once you raise the flop, you really do need to do so with the intention to shove the turn in this exact situation (i.e. you get heads up against a villain whose range may be relatively weak... but he's passive, and you have limited fold equity, so you really got yourself into trouble here).

I think calling the flop is better.

Your sizing (raise) still gives his range enough equity to continue. Raising also does not add enough FE to a hand w/o SD value. You're really hoping to hit a card, obviously.

Pre - I'd fold given eff stack size.

oops.

This is a spot to flat and bink. We make money off of these fools never folding Ax to our raises. Don't expect them to suddenly start doing it just because you think they should ldo.

Yeah thanks for the input and good points. I just thought i could pick the pot with some aggression since V1 and V2 displayed weakness.

To OP: The bolded might be the biggest reason why the flop raise is bad. This is one of those spots where you either make a real raise ($200-$250) to maximize FE* or you just call and play passively trying to hit (mostly)**.



Now the reason I like calling the flop: We have two active players behind us with flop checks that DO NOT define their range since they could easily be "checking to the raiser". Without any really solid tells on what they plan on doing, I'm gonna play it safe here and just call the flop for this cheap price and see what they do.


Now I can address my "**" notation above. You still can!!! Calling the flop doesn't mean we're giving up on trying to take this pot down without hitting. There are still some permutations left where I think we should attack. Let's say after you call the flop, the BB and the UTG player fold. Now there's $240 in the pot heading to the turn and the 6 hits, a total blank. Now the the PFR checks his weak hand (that looks like an obv outflopped overpair) and V2 makes a weak $50 bet, you shove, the PFR folds and V2 folds and you stack your chips.

You know both villains look weak on the flop, you said you have a betting tell on V2, and stacks are still deep enough for you to apply pressure on weakness, so if it's just you three guys on the turn, you better be ready to make a play IF the setup is right.

I also wanted to state that I agree with this, but where's the fun in that!

[QUOTE=lbrasci;40413037]

UTG strattles. V1 raises to 30, V2 calls, I call, bb calls, and utg calls. Pot 150.

Straddles but not a big deal. Calling flop is > than raising for all the reasons listed above and because occasionally V2 who is just flatting may look weak but even droolers flop sets and monsters now and again. Just because someone flat calls a small flop bet it doesn't mean we should plow through them. Often times loose calling stations should just be taken to Value Town. Just show them the best hand, over and over and over and over and over.....