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2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP 2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP

08-24-2019 , 04:40 PM
H ($1900): 30's white reg, probably seen as TAGish/bordering LAG but just got moved to the main game. Played with V many times before but not sure what his perception of me is here.

V ($1500): Old Asian guy, probably in his late 70's/early 80's. Rarely raises preflop, does a lot of limp/calling, but can get kind of aggro post. I've seen him dust off some stacks in bad spots before so he's not your typical OMC but he often has it when a pile of chips go in

V raises $15 in MP, 2 calls, H raises to $80 in SB with KK. V calls, others fold

Flop ($195): 646

H leads $75. V quickly raises to $200. H calls.

Turn ($595): 7

H checks. V bets $400. H?
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-24-2019 , 05:10 PM
Very interesting spot
I think I’m just folding this , the hands were beating here mostly likely would be trying to get to a cheap showdown: 99 1010 JJ
Maybe QQ with the queen of diamonds would take this line but I’m not sure that an OMC “type” would go for that line.
A really good bluff candidate here would be AK / AQ with the ace of diamonds, do you think he’s capable?
I think there are far more value hands in Villains range that would take this line, and for that reason I’m folding
Would love to hear others opinions on this one tho
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-24-2019 , 05:21 PM
I'm letting this one go. If he was semi-bluffing the flop, the main draw got there on the turn.

Maybe he's occasionally pulling some bullshit on his but I'm nowhere near confident enough of that to play for stacks on this board.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-24-2019 , 05:29 PM
If he doesn't raise pre often and raise/called here, he doesn't have many flushes at all. Maybe AKdd/AQdd. I think we can really just bomb the flop here since he's so overpair heavy. As played, I think I'd call down one more time & pray he slows down OTR. People can really spazz out with JJ/QQ here diamond, or not.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-24-2019 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumSurfer
If he doesn't raise pre often and raise/called here, he doesn't have many flushes at all. Maybe AKdd/AQdd. I think we can really just bomb the flop here since he's so overpair heavy. As played, I think I'd call down one more time & pray he slows down OTR. People can really spazz out with JJ/QQ here diamond, or not.
I accounted for AKdd AQdd AJdd A10dd A5dd KQdd KJdd QJdd J10dd 109dd 98dd, AA with ace of diamonds (probably not but maybe) I’ve seen these players who don’t raise pre often raise most if not all of those hands mentioned
Maybe he even got frisky with A6 suited
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-24-2019 , 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumSurfer
If he doesn't raise pre often and raise/called here, he doesn't have many flushes at all. Maybe AKdd/AQdd. I think we can really just bomb the flop here since he's so overpair heavy. As played, I think I'd call down one more time & pray he slows down OTR. People can really spazz out with JJ/QQ here diamond, or not.
+1.

Bigger OTF, call turn, but river is going to be gross especially since he's shown he can be spewy and will overplay hands.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-24-2019 , 06:44 PM
People are probably gonna hate this, but I think I like jamming here.
V has way more OP’s here than flushes imo and with a diamond he might sigh call it off. I think he would be more likely to call quickly with a draw than raise quick.
This kind of spot feels very live read dependent, but I would either be jamming now, or check-calling any non-diamond river. I think I prefer jam honestly.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-24-2019 , 09:54 PM
I'ma fold.

Gonna LMFAO when V shows the other KdKx.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-24-2019 , 11:21 PM
I fold. Not loving your flop bet, would of lead $100-120 here.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-24-2019 , 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XtraScratch8
People are probably gonna hate this, but I think I like jamming here.
V has way more OP’s here than flushes imo and with a diamond he might sigh call it off. I think he would be more likely to call quickly with a draw than raise quick.
This kind of spot feels very live read dependent, but I would either be jamming now, or check-calling any non-diamond river. I think I prefer jam honestly.
Don't hate it actually. Jamming can't be that bad especially against this V type, but variance is a factor. You're just never thrilled putting 300bb's into the middle w/ 1p.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-25-2019 , 02:01 AM
3! bigger pre like 100ish+. I would size up on the flop as well since I don't think his calling range will change much since its weighted towards hands that will call 1+ street. Has he ever dusted off in a bad spot vs you specifically? Can you provide us with some of those hh's? Does he ever dust it off deep in bad spots? Really hard to confidently give advice here w/o gameflow and specific history. I would have a hard time folding ott if hes capable of punting and we have a good understanding of his pfr range/sizing.

Last edited by 7weeks2days; 08-25-2019 at 02:08 AM.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-25-2019 , 06:15 AM
Given your player description this player is not raising 44/6x pre so that eliminates a lot of his value here. It is likely those hands that crush you might flat flop anyway.
So it depends on whether he is raising flush draws otf vs overpairs. Given reads I think it is the latter, so I wouldn't be folding
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-25-2019 , 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FusilliJerry
Don't hate it actually. Jamming can't be that bad especially against this V type, but variance is a factor. You're just never thrilled putting 300bb's into the middle w/ 1p.
Not thrilled about it, no. But not shying away from it if it feels like the right play is important too. Sure, we could be nearly drawing dead, but that doesn’t make it an inherently bad play. Playing deep shouldn’t mean that you always make the conservative play.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-25-2019 , 09:45 AM
I’m 3! to 105-115 here

Flop, I’d probably go a little bigger

When raised OTF, I would 3! given Vs description. He should have like no 6x here so that leaves PP>6 and FDs.

Turn really sucks given how the hand played out. It really doesn’t eliminate any AXdd hands V would probably raise pre. I probably sigh fold. More power to him if he bluffed you off the hand with a worse PP because you have enough AXdd and PPs with a diamond that could call here. KK with a diamond might be a call.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-25-2019 , 11:26 AM
Based on the Vil description "rarely raising", I'd give him top 8% of hands. My range table puts that AA-77, +ATs, AQo, +KTs, QJs. You lose to 8 combos (raw) of the suited hands & AA. 77 got there OTT, which is sick.

He's prob 4b AA pre. Doubt he raises OTF with 77. He shouldn't have any 6 in his range if you are correct with your description of how often he raises.

Now, if you jam, by your observation, he would "have it" if he calls. You're targeting QQ-TT as value that beat that could call. IMHO, that is a thin range.

This is a very sick spot, no doubt. I think best is call, evaluate OTR. Jamming seems bad, you prob fold hands you beat, and get called by hands you are almost drawing dead to. Folding seems bad, as you could easily be ahead.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-26-2019 , 05:38 PM
Forgot to update this one. I really wasn't sure what to do in this hand on the turn, so I just folded figuring I could be drawing to 2 outs after that turn card. He may have A6s/67s/68s on occasion but unlikely, Axdd are all possible, especially ATdd+, and not having the Kd I thought there was a good chance I was drawing nearly dead and I didn't think he would bomb the turn with JJ/QQ, diamond or not. When he raised me on the flop I actually thought he may have flatted with AA figuring I would fold to a 4b with most of my range, so AA makes a lot of sense even though he should be 4b pre.

V didn't show so I'll never know, but it definitely felt like I wasn't going to win if I called. I don't think he's ever bluffing here, it's more a question of what he does with hands like TT-QQ, but I think those check back turn a lot or bet smaller instead of setting up to play for stacks. I would have been in a worse spot if he bet $200-300 on turn, so he either bluffed me real good (seems unlikely) or let me off cheap. I was ready to get it in on a brick turn too! Oh well
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-26-2019 , 05:42 PM
^ imo if you were losing here it was almost certainly to AA, I agree.
Do you think this V would ever fold AA no diamond to a turn shove? Because that’s partially why I liked it as a high variance move. I think he’s way heavier in PP’s than flushes here.
Probably a good fold though. I don’t love call here at all.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-26-2019 , 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XtraScratch8
^ imo if you were losing here it was almost certainly to AA, I agree.
Do you think this V would ever fold AA no diamond to a turn shove? Because that’s partially why I liked it as a high variance move. I think he’s way heavier in PP’s than flushes here.
Probably a good fold though. I don’t love call here at all.
I don't think he folds anything other than a total bluff after he puts in $700, and his bluffs are almost always checking back the turn unless he somehow just has the naked Ad. All of his value hands should be calling, so I'd just be hoping he somehow had TT-QQ with a diamond (which still has decent equity), just seems so unlikely to be the hands he's playing that way
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote
08-26-2019 , 06:40 PM
^ fair enough. In that case fold is likely best. Interesting spot though, would love to know what he had. I’ve seen this player type play 10’s-QQ very similar to AA on this type of run out before, but I definitely wouldn’t lose any sleep over folding this spot.
It’s easy to say jam when writing words on a phone as opposed to jamming $1,400 of my own money.
2/5NL: KK gets a nice flop in 3b pot, then we get raised...300bb deep and OOP Quote

      
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