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Old 04-14-2014, 02:09 AM   #1
Newyorkgrinder
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2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

2-5nl foxwoods - villian is professor (asian guy) super crazy imo usually but has been sorta solid today. has been straddling every opportunity tho and playing about 30-50% of his hands preflop but overall very gamble happy.

so he is UTG+1 and I'm talkin about how he has to straddle next hand etc and he says he has somethin better and 'blind raises' to 25$ preflop after UTG folds.

600 effective

I look down at JJ and make it $135
folds back to him and he now looks at his cards and raises me $280 more to call

I tank for a while and say 'so sick how do you get a hand on your blind raise' and am considering mucking then I ask him "ok if I call the 280 can we check it down?" and he says "no"

i count out 300 in red and say 'what if i put in 300 (20 more) , can we check it down?" and he says "no"

so i consider folding and he then says "ok i got a deal for you, I show 1 card and you show both ... since you are basically playing fold or shove here" i say ok and show my JJ and he says I can pick one of his cards ... he then shuffles them around a bunch and i chose one and he shows Q

Im tanking and he says 'ok ill let you put in 280 and we can check it down'

at this point im trying to tell him i dont want to cuz i am probably beat unless he has KQ or AQ (or random qx and is trying to make a play)

then he basically calls me out and says ' well if you dont put in 280 now after you said you would then you are basically an angle shooter (for information) and the biggest a$$hole in this casino '

whats the play here?

Spoiler:
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:46 AM   #2
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

Wtf...I'm not even sure where to start here
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:50 AM   #3
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

i have never once asked to check a hand down , and if you are asking to check a hand down then you should probably move down stakes.. sorry but this is the truth. Why are you playing 2/5 if you are crapping yourself when someone 4 bets you preflop and instantly want to check it down.

also , you showed both your cards preflop in a 4! pot , are you serious? what are you doing?
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:52 AM   #4
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

aaaand this is why we don't talk about our hands while it's still in play.

also, lol at the deal you got. he gets to see both of your cards when he's the one closing the action?
it doesn't matter if you are either fold or shoving. because if you do shove, he can still decide not to call - showing your hand allows him to play perfectly.

and one last thing, your raise to $135 is WAY. too big. Would he call any 3bet from a blind raise? Else, you are only running into trouble hands that way.
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:54 AM   #5
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

read spoil. who cares what he thinks. plus, he's the one who said he knows you are either shoving/folding. he rejected your offer to call and check it down before that.

looks like you are the one who got angled lol.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:00 AM   #6
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

Why did you 3-bet that amount? If you were shorter and planned on getting it in on safe flops that makes sense, 120BB deep is an odd amount though. The $135 really just costs you. I would have made it ~$80, with $135 you just lose maneuverability postflop and also don't set up an SPR low enough to stack off. You're in SPR no man's land.

I don't know why you're auto giving gambley Asian credit for a big hand though. I guess you had no plan when you 3-bet? If you seriously think a middle-aged Asian is only giving you action with better than JJ then 3-bet/f. If not, I'd shove after he makes it $415.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:22 AM   #7
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturnal_Joker View Post
Wtf...I'm not even sure where to start here
This

Asking to check down or agreeing to check down is just stupid... Unless you have like 50 bucks on the table and it's a chick you're up against that you might give the Poseidon prong too later.. Then sure, that's acceptable. But a gambooly AzN professor? Pft. Why do we see one card and he sees both of ours? Uh...

Raise pre is LARGE.. Make it ~$75-85.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:22 AM   #8
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

sorry but what does SPR mean?

and I think given how hand played out and he shows Qx its pretty clear Im behind, no? at least thats what most of the people at the table who watched it go down said
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:24 AM   #9
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

oh and to everyone asking why I raised to huge preflop it's cuz I figured to be ahead here 99% of the time vs a "blindraise" and he WILL NOT FOLD about 70% of the hands (any two cards) cuz he love to gamboooooool

btw I think he said somethin later about how its a good play to say you blind raised when you really don't cuz it gets sick action...i wonder if he really didn't look before he put in 25 bucks lol maybe i got double leveled here hahahahaha
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:25 AM   #10
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

SPR is stack to pot ratio. What you have in front of you in relation to the size of the pot.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:26 AM   #11
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

If he is calling with worse and raising with better...then...?

We aren't just raising to get people out, we want a caller. We have a hand.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:30 AM   #12
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"ok i got a deal for you, I show 1 card and you show both ... since you are basically playing fold or shove here"

Sounds like you never agreed to call the 4 bet. There's so much deception built into the game already that, generally, I don't think it's good for the game or ethical to engage in outlandish (or even not so creative) forms of angles/deals/information-seeking, etc. I think you did the right thing once the fish decided somehow he got cheated. Glad it all worked out for you in the end.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:33 AM   #13
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

Quote:
Originally Posted by busticator View Post
Sounds like you never agreed to call the 4 bet. There's so much deception built into the game already that, generally, I don't think it's good for the game or ethical to engage in outlandish (or even not so creative) forms of angles/deals/information-seeking, etc. I think you did the right thing once the fish decided somehow he got cheated. Glad it all worked out for you in the end.
Hero lost lol
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:35 AM   #14
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

ok but my real question here is did the fish really get cheated here (had I mucked preflop to his 280+raise that is...)????

part of me wanted to just muck then and there since I figured I was beat but I figured he may get upset and just rackup and leave (he was playing about 1500-2000 at the time so I definitely didn't want to see him take the money and run)

I know foxwoods does not enforce stuff like this (check it down agreements etc etc) so I knew for sure even if he did call floor etc I wouldn't be in any trouble or anything I just didn't want to basically scare him away...any thoughts on this situation?
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:36 AM   #15
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newyorkgrinder View Post
oh and to everyone asking why I raised to huge preflop it's cuz I figured to be ahead here 99% of the time vs a "blindraise" and he WILL NOT FOLD about 70% of the hands (any two cards) cuz he love to gamboooooool
You don't need to "figure," you can do the math, he's dealt QQ+ exactly 1.469% of the time.

But if he is really this gambley, JJ is rags in this dynamic. You can just nut peddle every street.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:38 AM   #16
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

You took his deal of showing him your cards, he didn't say anything about the chips going in the middle. He wanted to change the terms after it was over lol, sounds like Roddy White in disguise.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:40 AM   #17
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newyorkgrinder View Post
ok but my real question here is did the fish really get cheated here (had I mucked preflop to his 280+raise that is...)????

part of me wanted to just muck then and there since I figured I was beat but I figured he may get upset and just rackup and leave (he was playing about 1500-2000 at the time so I definitely didn't want to see him take the money and run)

I know foxwoods does not enforce stuff like this (check it down agreements etc etc) so I knew for sure even if he did call floor etc I wouldn't be in any trouble or anything I just didn't want to basically scare him away...any thoughts on this situation?
Originally you made the description that he usually is super crazy but solid today, giving the hint that he's a regular you've played with before. Why would this one play get him to get up and walk out?
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:42 AM   #18
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

who is Roddy White? smh so I basically got angled here....at least based on how I described the scenario. I mean maybe the convo went slightly different but I'm pretty sure it was exactly as described.

I mean of course had the agreement of showing cards also involved me being required to call and if I try to muck then of course thats super angley on my part but I am pretty sure it was never really agreed upon until the last second when I tried to fold and he basically said that I already agreed when I really didn't lmfao oh well goodbye 280$
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:44 AM   #19
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

You said you made it back from him anyway do whatever
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:44 AM   #20
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

@RyanAA - he used to be a regular and huge donator but I honestly haven't played here too often over the past 5 years or so (which was last time I saw him and it was mostly at 5-10nl and sometimes bigger) and it seemed from the rest of the tables talk that he hasn't been here in a while either. so he clearly isn't a pro but perhaps semi-regular of this casino but I was worried that if he had a bad taste in his mouth (lol perhaps a bad phrase to use lmao) that he would decide to rack up and go home or do somethin else (like spend his new money on somethin cool instead of dump it back)
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:55 AM   #21
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

Word word.

Well... Welcome back! Hahaha don't show your cards like that haha
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:15 AM   #22
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Re: 2-5nl JJ vs blindraise...professor calls me an angle shooter (weird scenario)

Up to last week, I'd put this in M&B, but that is now closed. It isn't a LLSNL question, post it in B&M.

Locked.
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