Hero ($3500) on button: Late 20's reg, TAG bordering on LAG tonight, though V already should know my game pretty well and he considers me a thinking solid player too. A few notable hands from earlier:

Three people limp, hero makes it $45 on button with K6, old guy SB flats with $200 effective (AA obv), one more limper flats with $800 effective. Flop KT4 checks to me, I bet $100, SB shoves $200, limper min-raises to $300, hero shoves $800, limper calls. SB has AA, limper has KJ, I double brick and am down a buy-in 10 minutes in.

I reload to $900, win a couple small pots to get to 1100, and limp 88 UTG. One more limper, solid LAG player makes it $25, two callers, I call, limper calls. Flop 892, checks to LAG who bets $75, folds to me, I raise to $240, limper folds, LAG tanks, says he should fold, I tell him I have a flush draw, he says ok let's gamble and jams $1000 with KK, I hold.

Couple orbits later same LAG player from hand above button straddles, I raise KK in MP to $40, folds to him, he 3b to $140, SB flats, I make it $540, LAG tanks again and jams $1000, SB calls the shove for less (about $600), I call. SB has the other KK, LAG has QQ, our KK's hold up.


V (~$3300) is UTG: 20's reg, solid thinking player, TAG game but capable of taking some non-standard lines and not afraid to double or triple barrel. Right before the hand I seat changed to get better position on another solid LAG that was on my direct left. When I sit down V asks me how many bills I have and says we're going to have to play a $3200 pot (he had $200 in chips and a stack of bills, didn't know he had $3k+), I agree.

Right after he says this, I get dealt AK on the button. Now personally I really don't like the way I played this hand, but this is a pretty fun spot since there are so many options being this deep and him being OOP, though this is the first time I've ever been in a spot this deep against a solid player in a 2/5 game.

V makes it $20 UTG, the other solid LAG that I moved to get position on flats, I make it $80, V makes it $200, other guy folds. Hero?

What do you give as his UTG opening raise range? Pretty tight, right?

What kind of range do you put him on for the 5bet? I would assume his 5bet range is fairly tight, but is it AQ+/JJ+ tight or AK/QQ+ tight and is there any chance something like AJs/TT/99 in his range or any bluffs. Does he every fold to a 6bet? A lot of players tend to assume they are pot committed once the 4bet+ goes in no matter how deep you are.

My first instinct is to flat a see a flop. Your already heads up, the pot is already big and you have position. This deep I hate to give up AKs preflop but villain's range here means that a further raise seems more bluff then value.

Probably 99+/AQ+ and maybe some suited connectors

I don't think he's committed with $200 in and $3k+ back...

what concerns me most is that he open raised UTG on a live table, probably pretty tight range, and feels the need to 4bet now although his UTG opening range should be strong enough to flat the 3bet and play the hand even oop this deep. if it would be CO vs BTN i would much more inclined to see it as a levelling war.

still, i would not fold AKs this deep to a 4bet ever, since he obv would be capable of 4betting us with a very wide range if we fold here. if you consider folding, you might rethink about how to construct your 3bet range in position this deep vs thinking players. 5betting seems senseless, overplaying + taking away positional advantage etc... folding is highly exploitable, esp with his 4bet sizing.

seems like a clear call to me, keeping in mind that he prob is rather strong here since he open raised UTG. any sizing tells on him? 4x his standard size for UTG raises, or does he go bigger with super premium?

I was never considering a fold preflop, that would be pretty dumb. Don't really have any idea on his sizing when playing this deep. Could be AA, could be 78s. He's probably more likely to 4b suited connectors than AQ.

agreed. so, we agree that pre is a rather standard situation, right? flop?

Just call. If we 5bet, we probably fold out almost everything we aren't crushed by.

Calling keeps his range wider. TT+, AK I with some speculative hands that he may 4bet bluff with is reasonable.

Anything but calling is terrible

Make it 450.

You have the equity to call pre. KK+ somewhat less likely.

While you are on the BTN, he will have the first initiative. You'll miss flop >2/3 of the time, but may pick-up equity with a spade draw. Nonetheless, still a miss most of the time. So I'd be thinking what to do if he fires $300 on a 982r flop.

Call, hope to hit flop, don't overthink. If a miss, fold and move on. I'm sure there are softer spots at the table.

Don't 3b the utg open here, I tend to want to fold here to a 4b but the price is right.

I'm also not 3b akos here but if there were more callers I'd be inclined to 3b both hands.

FWIW I'm with 11t that I probably don't 3 bet here that often.

+2

Why no 3 bet?

Because we are suited, deep, on the button, not much dead money, and UTG ranging + description

85 would be a much better hand to 3!

Yeah also our hand has a ton of value flatting and hitting tptk.

or A5ss

Yes to Ava's rationale, plus we disguise our hand well and we're in position on two V who are likely to a lot of barreling for us in the event that we hit our hand in some way.

FWIW I think 3!'ing is fine, the point shouldn't be made that flatting is clearly the optimal play, just that flatting is a very viable option, especially being suited.

Note, I'm not saying flatting is not the optimal play, but there certainly are options over it being a clear flat pre.

I am a button monkey and this becomes apparent rather quickly in my games so it would be hard for me not to 3! here. I probably would flat much more often than not though.

AKo I would 3! more than AKs, but again flatting quite a bit.

I would flat here though initially as villain was described as TAG (ranging) who can triple barrel (dynamic)

Fwiw versus a tight opening raise with one caller I think flatting the button here is clearly optimally exploitive versus their ranges given our hand.

But 3b isn't bad, I'd 3b way more though since I'm planning on bluffing.

We also potentially keep a lot of dominated hands in when we flat. Weaker suiteds, weaker Aces or Kings, etc

I agree. I realized that as I was typing out I didn't even really like what I was saying. Don't want to ninja edit to stay true to discussion.

And yes I realize that a major part of flatting is that we flop the mortal nuts when the flop is A37 or w/e and he just barrels into us like donkey kong.

We also rep a much wider range if we want to turn our hand into a bluff or w/e (like if the flop comes 567)

+1

Flat. Flop?