Six handed 2/5 $1000 buy in game. People are generally playing snug but I'm familiar with these guys and play them with exploitative style.

H ($750): snug image, kind of card dead.
V ($1300): typically loose passive but can sometimes get a stuck up his ass and fight for pots in random ways. Doesn't like to fold and will call with stupid stuff just because.
MP ($1200): tight passive, fit or fold

MP raise to $15, V (BTN) calls, H (BB) calls with KQ

Flop ($47): K65

H checks, MP bets $30, V calls, Hero raises to $125, MP folds, V calls.

I raised flop for value and I don't want to see a lot of turn cards 3 ways. We are deep enough to maneuver and I want to raise this with draws and want to be able to balance with value. This is probably the bottom of my value range.
Most rational players will have a very tight continuing range on the flop but this one fights for pots a bunch. I have a hard time ranging him here so this leads to discomfort later. I'm guessing any Kx, 65, 55, 78, any flush draw, some random gutshots. He's definitely the kind of player to see my stack size and call $90 like it isn't anything special.

Turn ($330) 4

Hero checks, BTN bets $90, Hero calls.

I don't know if I should bet the turn, seems like a bad idea since better calls and worse folds. I can sometimes check a flush to this player since I think he will fight for this pot on a card like this. The bet size is so weird, I feel like it is a feeler bet or a milking bet. At this point I'm not having any better time ranging him.

River ($510) 4

Hero checks, BTN bets $350, Hero folds.

Should I have played the turn or river differently? I had this bad feeling that I induced a bluff then folded to it. Then again tree fiddy feels like a value size. Thoughts on other lines appreciated too.

AP, agree with fold.

Flop - Once the tight passive PFR cbets flop 3-way, I wouldn’t raise. K-high flop hits his pre and continuing ranges hard. Flat, evaluate, see a turn which may be an equity pick up.

Turn – B/F with TP, FD blocker, chance to improve vs. this type of player.

Flop isn't as bad as people are going to say it is in this thread, but it's still bad.

Turn is fine as played and river is an easy fold as played.

I hate calling raises with KQ. Especially OOP. I seriously doubt even the best players can make a profit like that.

As played, MP is "fit or fold". What do you put him on when he bets that flop? If hes tight passive like you said, there's a high probability he has AK or AA (which is why I dont call raises with KQ).

Even more importantly, what about when he calls a healthy check raise?

After he calls the check raise, I think you have to give up or pound the turn to like $250. If hes fit or fold he should fold most of his range. Having said that, I really dont like preflop or the flop check raise.

OOP I would have folded those rags pre

as played call flop
fold to turn bet

Fit or fold in terms of his postflop play and playing against heat. I think even the most FOF player is going to cbet K65 with a huge amount of his range. I put him on a wide range that can't stand action and that will fold to it. He isn't a total nit or anything just won't give me a hard time.

The BTN was the loose passive type that called the c/r. If MP called the c/r I would have slowed down a bunch. I think the c/r profits in a vacuum since MP is b/f a lot and BTN has a lot of worse K's, draws and BS.

I admit to being confused on this turn. I probably come in with barrels on other spade cards besides the 4

Jarretman, why is the flop c/r bad?

My bad, I misread the OP. I still much prefer to fold pre though.

Pre is maybe questionable, but otherwise I think your line is great. Especially the turn check....we have picked up a ton of equity, so betting here and getting blown off our draw would be awful.

WP OP.

Seriously? I am often be a big nit preflop, but this is such a 1000% standard call vs a 3x open. Vs a 5x+ open, it's debatable but there is no way in hell I am ever folding these vs two weak players in the BB facing a 3x open.

Flop check-raise is really bad, just flat.

Ott seems fine, you have SDV and you dont want to face a raise and get blown off your equity. You arent folding any better hands except AK no spade and AA no spade.

OTR seems fine. If you got bluffed, great for him. Besides counterfeited two pair (which he should have raised flop or backraised at some % freq) and 98, you really beat nothing.

Anyone folding pre is over folding to a 3x open in this spot plain and simple.

I don't like the flop raise for value b/c we actually should have a lot of better value hands here: K6s, K5s, 56s, 55, 66. This give us plenty of value hands to raise with our bluffs IMO.

AP, Turn check/call is fine.

River probably just a sigh fold don't really see what bluffs we're beating

Minatorr,

I'll play devil's advocate against calling this hand out of the Blinds. This is 2/5 and we are fairly deep. (I would be topped off to be 200 bigs with the other players, but w/e)

First regarding the 3x raise. I know I am in the minority, but I raise 3x with my entire range when I am first in the pot. This can be anything from AA to 45s. Unless OP has a read that he varies his bet size due to his card strength, then I wouldn't read much into that.

Secondly, I want to play hands especially the deeper we get that can make the nutz. The best chance KQo has a chance of doing this is by making the nut straight. And a lot of the time if we get an AJx flop, we are chasing a gut shot because "if we hit we can stack this bastard." Bad thinking and bad play. Most of the time, we get a 1 pair hand that is not near the nuts and OOP is likely to face a lot of aggression that we don't want.

Suited and I am all for it when we can add that equity into the hand. IF I was to play this out of the BB against a 3x open, I would 3! and take the intiative.Makes a donk on the flop much more believable should we want to take that route post flop etc....

Long winded way of saying I drop this hand in the blinds facing any amount of raise and don't think twice about it. I'd rather play SCs here than this hand.

Edit: Not to mention when we flop a K or a Q that likely hits the openers range as well a lot of the time.

+1

Minatorr, do you ever flat preflop here from the sb, or do you prefer a raise or fold strategy from that position with hands like KQ/AJo, etc?

How can you raise flop for value but can’t 3bet preflop?

I'm the same way - never alter my pf raise size based on hand strength. However, I am hyper aware of anyone else doing it and it's such a common bet-sizing tell, even among regs. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the tight/passive opener held the weakest portion of his opening range here given the 3x sizing. I'm not going to fold my bb here, but I could certainly get on board with a 5x squeeze.

Yeah, I had the same thought come to mind.

This is just absurd to me. We're not talking about a hand like K9o....are we really that terrified of AK and do we play that poorly postflop that we're folding KQo from the BB vs a 3x MP open. Come on....

Because we flop a 1 pair all to often that can't take the heat from the IP player, JUST LIKE ITT.

Maybe you are a better post flop player than me, but I'm not going to put myself in that position by just calling preflop. Raise or Fold.

Reading this seems like he showed you some random bluff even though his range should be awfully strong ott and riv because you chose to ckr flop (that's why it's bad).

Bet the turn yourself next time. River is close for me bc you may have induced a spazz checking turn/he gets loose sometimes/and his downbet+upbet appears to be boat/air.
Pre is fine for $10/closing action/heads up w a loose passive player w random spazzes.

Except the tight passive player made the raise and spazz came along for the ride.

KQo doesn't play that well multiway. (Amana) Why do you advocate a flat with this hand out of the BB.?

"fold pre" gets out of control these days

Seriously, how about we just muck our BB out of turn blind, the EV difference will be trivial and may create some action for the rest of the table.

Did he show, OP?

He didn't show, and I'm still waiting to hear why the flop c/r is so bad...

I can't tell from amanaplan if he's saying the flop c/r is bad because his continuing range is strong? Still confused by many of the comments on flop play ITT.

Is the fold pre directed at me?

This description seems inconsistent with that of a tight passive (post) player, which is why I wouldn't raise the flop.

In my experience, yours may differ ofc, FOF players will not cbet 3-way with most of their range on a K-high drawy board. QQ may be the bottom of that B/F range, imho.