You might want to check out the post 2 posts above yours before you post, or you risk looking very silly.

Im very interested to see more discussion on this because some really good points were made.

Disagree with bolded. The most likely person that we will get value from is the PFR, not the field callers. They are likely folding unless there is some bizarre slowplay of a huge hand. So, we want to size to get value from our hand vs the PFR and if the passives decide to come along then that is great. Maybe that is one difference...I am very comfortable playing AKss IP vs multiple opponents.

When you have a value hand, the last thing you want to do is size an amount where you will only be called when you are behind. Shoving here does that and is a clear overplay. Put yourself in Beer Man's spot...what hands would YOU call a shove with here? Are they all ahead of AKs?

Now, if this were two hours into the session and we had seen Beer Man call shoves randomly, then fine, the shove is for value. But here it is an clear overplay because we have no info at all. Not only that, but we don't want him to fold hands like 88+/AQ/AJss etc. We want him to call with those hands so we can make more $ off of him when we flop big and/or we can steal some boards with high cards that miss us AND are over his pair.

Yeah I agree with the masses. Think $125/call off was the move.

Here's an interesting thought process. If you had KK or AA and were one of those middle position players, do you maximize your value in this hand by flatting or 3betting (assume for the moment that you know Hero has AK)

We don’t even know what hero did and how the beer man responded can we move on?

This is like the most standard 3bet to 125 ever

Threads like this are why this forum is unbearable sometimes. Should have ended after the first post or first few.

Serious question. We bet to $125.... With 4 players behind us to act before we ever get to Beer Man and 2 field callers behind. That is 7 players. What is your plan for this hand? What is so standard about what might happen behind us.

For example, let's say we bet $125 and the Btn flats, Beer Man folds and 1 of the 2 passives jams for their remaining stack and the action is back on you. What is your play?

25+25+25+125+125=325 in the pot before passive jams his last 325 in and you have to call off 200 with the Btn left to act. Just for fun, let say the Btn has a 500 stack. Call, Jam or Fold?

Posts like this with no thought behind it are whey this forum is unbearable sometimes. You should have quit reading after the first few posts if it didn't interest you.

Then you're all in bud. It's 1 buyin with a top 3 hand wtf is so difficult. Stop trying to push your bad nit shove pre agenda cause you're afraid to make another decision and suck at playing post.

There's a 60 year old moron that plays in my home game(5/5/15) that shoves AK pre or limp shoves every time he has it. Says stupid **** like my mom taught me if you see 75 on the ground you should pick it up while he's shoving 1200 to get it. He's terrible and an idiot and is just avoiding making more decisions or play post flop and somehow he's convinced himself that it's the best play.

I too bang my head against my virtual keyboard when people seem to be allergic to playing hands past the flop.... When stacks are deeper. These stack sizes are just awkward depending on who wants to play. Also AKs doesn't really play that well against multiple opponents. We can only make 1 side of the straight (granted it will be the nut straight) but if we flop a straight draw it is going to be a 4 outer (gutshot.) And we are only going to have ~50% chance of having a pair or better by the river and only a ~30% chance of flopping a pair or better.

So if we flop the gutshot with a BDFD even if one of our overs is live we have about ~20-25% equity with little to no FE with the remaining stack sizes. Shoving at this point seems bad to me. Sure we can flop big as well but just not a spot I want to put myself in 70% of the time when we have put in 25% of the effective stack pre-flop.

Well I am a lot like Beer Man. Maybe why I am posting. I'm a MAWG that has a few pops while I'm playing and I like to think I have some clue about how to play this game. If it were me, your $125 bet screams value. But if you stick it all in there, I might convince myself you are making a pure squeeze play and call of light. Remember, we don't know anything about him but he doesn't know anything about you either.

Responded already to this in another recent post. Main problem is we have 4 people in the hand left to act before it gets to Beer Man and 2 field callers behind. IF it works out where we get HU with Beer Man, great but there are 7 total players left to act so the scenarios are rarely going to be what we expect.

PS. Thanks for posting reasons for why you think your line is best instead of 1 snarky sentence.

Thanks for your thoughtful input. And I agree with everything you just posted about said 60 year old moron. Have a few of those in my games as well. Funny thing is, the guys that are used to playing 1/2 short stack that try to play in our 2/5 deep stacked games do the same thing.

I am not one of those people by a long shot. You would be shocked what my UTG or first in the pot opening range is. It is 3x whether I have AA or 56s or Aks or a suited 1 gapper. But stacks are 200+ Bigs with some holding 400 bigs. Then Yes. I am on board with the standard 3! size and lets play some post flop poker. As I said, the stack size here is just awkward and I think it is closer to a jam than a standard raise. Obv I am THE minority. So if the OP could move this along that would be great.

This is what you want with AKs IMO. Someone makes an oversized open and two callers so you can comfortably 3 bet to like 25 bb and call off a shove w/ lots of dead $ in the middle. And if someone does something weird and calls you, you have a pretty good hand (that may still be good if you miss). Sometimes you'll be ahead when they decide big gamble and ram in AQ, too.

Edit: Not sure what one of the above posters is getting at here. We aren't trying to get in AKs because we don't want to play postflop. We are trying to 3 bet here because we have a good hand and we want value, but at the end of the day, we still have ace hi and getting everyone to fold their hands is a big win for us. We let everyone realize a good chunk of their equity against us if we just call and see a flop. And even against 3 random hands, AKs only wins 41.5% of the time. Even against a single top 5% range, we win 48.9% of the time. And from my experience, guys who sit in and 5x it will be calling all sorts of dumb **** like KTo or A6s.

I’m in the “get it in” camp. What kind of beer is this guy drinking, though? If he’s drinking Natural Light or Steel Reserve, you’re definitely ahead of his range. If he’s drinking a more sophisticated beer, such as Heineken, he’s a more thinking player. LOL!

Anyone as angry as you cannot be a winning player

If hes drinking Heineken his range is 25%

if he's drinking heineken he raised blind

Haha should have asked him what kind of beer he had. As for the people saying OP should wrap this up/move it along -- sorry didn't know that's how this goes. Pretty new here.

I ended up playing the hand in the worst way possible. I flatted, one more called behind, we went to the flop 5-way. Spiked TPTK on A86s, beer man cbet, fold fold, I raised, last to act shoved, beer man chucked it, and I layed my hand down to a set. I won't get into the stack sizes and postflop analysis, but just on who the shover was and how much we had behind it was a pretty easy fold. He showed the set afterwards.

Everyone chiming in definitely made me realize this is a super standard 3bet to $125 or so and was kind of a dumb post in retrospect. I guess that means I'm learning. Anyhow I appreciate the help guys.

you're good. keep posting.

Yeah it shows the advice was pretty good

What was the exact flop including suits and V stack size though ?

3 bet to minimum $100 all day but preferably $125+

Even $125 is too low