Hero ~$600 TAG image; H is normally a $1/3 player but don't think any of these villains know this - they probably just don't recognize hero at all. UTG+1

V1 ~$350 quiet asian guy; been playing rather tight seems comfortable at the table though so maybe competent but is fairly new to table; no showdowns; HJ

V2 ~$400 average rec player; MP

V3 ~$500 seems competent; UTG+2



Hero JJ raises to $20
V3 call, V2 call, V1 call

Flop (~$80): 872r
Hero bets $50
V3 fold; V2 fold; V1 calls


Turn (~$180): Qr
H check
V1 bets $90
H call

River ($360): 7
H check
V1 jams for ~$200
Hero?




Think river is a good card for me, reduces set combos. I don't think V has a ton of Qx; he may float me with overs like KQ with a BDFD. He could've called flop and bet turn with 8x but feels like he would check back river. Bluffs can include 9Ts/JTs




1) Is it ok to check turn to induce, call turn but fold to a river jam? Or should I be calling river if I call turn?

2) Why do you like or hate the turn check?

3) Call/fold river? Thanks.

I'm probably betting turn as I think a lot of his range is single pair hands and draws which I think we can get value from. But checking is fine. I think you have to c/c and c/f rivers.

As played, I don't like calling the river jam as I think he has 7x in his range, maybe some 8x jams river, I think some % checks behind if not most, and maybe he has some Qx jams as well and some missed straight draws.

Vs unknowns you open yourself up to being bluffed on rivers and having to fold but vs some opponents, you're going to have to call.

Yes I prefer checking turn. Don't think we will get called 2 more streets by 8x 99 or TT very often so check/calling turn allows us to get value from bluffs and we can bet river if they check behind and get the same amount of value.

V value range on river is something like 3 combos of 88, 1 combo 77, 2 combos A7s, 3 combos 22, and some weight of 6 combos 87, 3 combos QQ and 6 combos KK. Bluffs could be 4 combos each of T9s and 65s and also some weight of the offsuit ones. If we have wider bluffs we'd have to include more Qs in the value range so it'd probably balance out. We are getting 2.8 to 1 on call ad with combos listed value is about 3 to 1. Also, we know v will value bet river close to 100% of time with these value hands but assuming v will double barrel air 100% of the time is a stronger assumption. Without read that V can be much wider with preflop and flop float or that V will double barrel bluff draws very often I think river is a fold.


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Grunch:

Don't see many bluffs except 65s/T9s exactly, and considering V's description and stacksize, even that might be a stretch. Also likely he checks back the turn with those hands if he's passive.

If you're going to check, then check/fold turn OR call turn/call river. Check/calling turn and check/folding river seems like burning money here. I think this is a major leak a lot of us have. Which is why it gets critical to know your opponent's "turn betting frequency when checked to after calling a flop cbet".

In retrospect, I prefer betting turn for value as he should never have Qx, and probably muck the 65s/T9s. If he calls turn, you're far more confident in c/f river.

@6betfold I'm not sure I'm ever seeing a slowplayed QQ here. With an open from me, and 2 callers after, there seems to be too much dead money to just flat here and let the hand go a minimum of 4-ways, and very likely more.

is anyone else x/f turn? x/f turn seems pretty bad imo.

c/f turn is super bad. It's either bet/f turn or c/c turn.

Vs nitty opponents you can c/f.

OP's player description suggested V is a rather quiet, tight guy, so I envisioned him on the nittier side when advocating check/fold turn. Check/folding actually feels wrong which is why I like bet/fold way more.

But if you guys check/call turn, how do you play brick rivers such as these? It's something I am never able to figure out in these spots.

I'm fine with x/c turn and folding brick rivers vs jam. Vs sometimes bet turn with hands like 8x, TT and 99 that almost never also bet river.


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Have to fold until you start seeing some of their hands in other pots, pending sizing.

I would have shoved turn over his bet

@wj94 that is pretty interesting.

thought process? you think his range is weighted toward draws than sets?

and as played what would you do on the river?

Only read title. NO

That makes no sense...

V should be calling your flop bet with any pair or draw, which is pretty wide. Q turn doesn't really change anything unless he has AQ or Q8/Q7 which seem unlikely. When you check V should be betting most of the time, they're usually gonna put you on the old AK. I'd feel pretty good about JJ on 872Q board vs a shorter stack. As played, on the river it doesn't feel like you have the best hand anymore but I probably can't find a fold with these stack sizes and the fact that he could be value shoving A8/99/TT, bluff shoving some missed draws, etc.

Sure it does, V only has $200 left, half his stack is in the middle already...and hero should have the best hand most of the time.