Loose passive table, no 3-betting from anyone besides Hero who has LAG image

Effective stacks: $800

Main V: MAWG, seems solid

UTG straddles

Hero in LJ limps $10

4 ways to flop, hero is IP

Flop: KxTs9s ($40)

Checks around

Turn: KxTs9s8s ($40)

V bets $35, whale fish calls, hero calls

River: KxTs9s8s4x ($145)

V bets $105, fish folds hero folds

Going to be that dick today. OH REALLY?

Raise pre with the straddle to go after.
As played I actually like the fold on river.

Not sure why you wouldn't raise pre. I'd open to $40.

I would raise-fold the turn.

As played, river is definitely a call. We are under repped and are easily exploitable if we're folding this river with the line we took. Sets are definitely included in MDF on this river.

You say you have a LAG image, but you limp pre, check the flop, call the turn, and fold river.

Maybe you have a different definition of LAG than we are used to in this forum.

Re: LAG, to be clear to everyone I have a LAG image because I have been relentlessly 3betting and opening IP against fit/fold passives and have tabled multiple bluffs at this point (including at showdown, stacking someone's QQ with 64s in a 3bet pot). I'm also the youngest player at the table.

Re: Preflop, I don't see any significant reason to raise since 88 is not a maneuverable hand post-flop and I'm not going to get folds or be able to go heads up. Nearly all of 88 EV comes flopping a set multiway so the strategy is pretty fit/fold.

I obviously don't think raising can be that bad since I'd raise with TT and 99 so 88 is pretty borderline.

Re: Flop, I'd love to hear your reasoning for doing anything but check flop

If you have a lag image, why are you folding on a blank river with a set? V is probably putting you on a lot of top pairs, some two pairs, and not a ton of sets. Any set you would have had, would have been raised by you pre. I am calling that river all day.

What was your plan when you called behind two players for the river?

I have more than the correct odds to draw to a boat/quads. I'd also bet if checked to when I miss the boat.

I don't know that my image is that relevant given V bet into 2 players, including a whale station

Because you are incredibly under repped, and considering the whale, V could be doing this with all his two pair, tptk, and semi bluff hands in addition to his straights.

Raise pre. As played, call river. You are incredibly under-repped, and V could have a ton of two pair hands you beat or even AsXx.

What's the point of posting you have a lag image? This river spot is EXACTLY why you play as a Lag. Because people who care about that type of thing (which I assume the non-whale player does) are never putting you there. He probably thinks you fell in love with a pair and a medium kicker, or a broken draw.

I regret putting that, because I do think it's near irrelevant in this hand. I put it because it's customary to put your image and in most cases it is relevant.

When I think about LAG, I think about betting a wide range (aggressively) NOT calling a wide range. You're thinking about loose passive. Maybe someone could clarify definitions since this has derailed the discussion.

What you're describing "someone who fell in love with a pair" is a loose-passive whale and I'm not the whale in this hand

Derailed the thread? What thread is there? You limped with a pocket pair, hit your set, and folded to a V's 2nd bullet on a blank. It's a straddle pot, where even a solid V thinks through a round of checking that a hand like KQ is the nuts, and people won't be able to get away from 10x hands. I am not saying that's what you did, I am saying that's probably what the V is thinking about you. Every set except 4s coming from you probably raise it up.

The only think you should regret doing is folding on the river. Mubsy as hell.

Please don’t fold sets here. Especially to such an under pot sized bet. That is too much fancy play.

Trying not to be skeptical, but I am imagining that OP makes a post about how he heard V talking about how he had a set or the nut straight and H made the god fold, despite being at the top of his range.

I’m a nit and still openraise $35-40 with even 22 in this configuration from the LJ.

And OP is open limping 88 and calls himself a LAG, lmao.

LIVE POKER ISN’T DEAD.

See? We aren't just mean to you.

This forum is brutal. Hero didn't say he was LAG he said he expects his Vs to think he has a LAG image based on previous hands. I tend to agree as either calling a 3 bet with 64s or 3 betting it yourself is not very tight or passive. In addition to that he mentions showing down bluffs. People act as if a LAG-ish player has no flatting range. Just like any style the spectrum is continuous and not every player will fit into discrete levels where all frequencies must equal x, y, or z.

If we're in position and playing 64s in 3 bet pots I don't understand the limp with 88 in position. Raise pre. AP, I like flop check. AP I like turn flat but can go either way since the whale may come along if we raise and fold out main V. AP I don't mind the river fold that much. I know we are super strong and under-repped but given Vs line I would not expect strong hands to check / trap flop with a whale behind hoping that the "LAG" bets. If V is solid I would expect a flop bet for value almost always in a limped pot. This makes it feel as if the turn made his hand. Since we have all the 8s that means he has more flushes and straights than 2 pair hands IMO. When both players call turn V shouldn't have many bluffs here when he continues to blast away OTR. Obviously I don't mind calling river much either but given all the info I prefer a fold and like Heros line (given the limp pre, which I mentioned I did not like).

That's how we are interpreting it mate. That's why half the posts are saying H should be calling because of how underrepped he is. Because a H who is seen as lag would have raised pre with his sets. That's the whole point of how a thinking player uses their perceived image. Most non fish players would take heroes exact line with tptk.

Hell, V could have a bleh hand, putting H on a broken draw and simply putting a bet because he is scared of this "LAG" hero making a tough river bet and V having no idea if he is crushed or not.

lol @ folding a set for $100 without 4 to a straight/flush on board. V can have all sorts of two pair, Jx, QsX/JsX, AsX type hands. If he has a flush or straight then cooooool hand bro, here's $100