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2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight 2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight

02-23-2015 , 04:16 PM
Effective stack $630

Hero 26, hoodie, has a LAG image, early in the session I called his preflop raise with 89ss OTB flop 1074ccc he bet $50 into $90 I flatted purely to float knowing he can't stack off with overpair but the 3rd guy in the hand shoved from BB, I told villian I was gonna take it away OTT if the other villian didn't shove. I'm a reg at a near by casino but decided to play here this morning randomly so I'm unknown to all players

Villian 28ish, grinder looking type, has tablet in front of him, headphones playing a real tight game just raising big hands and playing them fast, hasn't limped much, Has a lot of money in front of him

Villian limps UTG and so do 2 more Hero raises to $35 in mp with 1010 4 callers

Flop ($170) K109r villian donks $50 Hero raises to $150 villian calls

Turn ($470) J villian says all in fairly quickly Hero has $440 left.

You and why. Thanks.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-23-2015 , 04:22 PM
fold, we only beat a bluff, and he should never have a bluff on the turn with that action.

(ok this isn't quite true, he could be spazzing with 2p I guess, but we block most of that with our set. Plus I wouldn't expect a random to jam 2p/set here as often as a random would jam kq/qj [or to a lesser extent 87]. So if you factor that in as well there are way more combinations of straights than worse made hands)

also dude with the headphones on who only peeks up from his tablet to check his cards before folding is not getting into some sick level 9 thinking.

Last edited by DK Barrel; 02-23-2015 at 04:32 PM.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-23-2015 , 04:26 PM
Guess we puke and fold our set
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-23-2015 , 04:32 PM
easy fold
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-23-2015 , 05:59 PM
Hard to believe Villain Flops the nuts and donks OOP in a 5 way pot and then just Flats Hero's raise.

Strange that V open shoves Turn all-in after Flatting Hero's raise on the Flop, strange indeed.

Looking this one up getting 2:1 on the call. I think we are good here at least 1/3 of the time.

Note that Hero's Flop raise is a pot builder giving V almost 4:1 on the call, and leaving a pot sized bet left on the Turn. I would prefer to Flat or commit bigger in these spots. Leaning toward Flatting on connected board 5 way.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-23-2015 , 07:12 PM
from villains perspective, what are we raising his lead with? i think our range for raising the flop in this spot is AA AK KK TT 99 and maybe QJ. i don't really think any of the hands we raise flop with have a Q in in, maybe KQ but i think we just call KQ on the flop. villain's limp/calling rage pre flop can be 22-99, KQ, KJ, KT, K9s, QJ, QT, Q9s, JT, J9s (rough range)... the only way we can call is if we think villain is turning 2pair or top pair into a bluff, which seems unlikely here.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-23-2015 , 07:49 PM
I think we're hoping villain's range has a lot of KJs, KTs, 9Ts, and 99 in it. And then that he takes a weird line with a bluff catcher when the board got scary. Realistically, he has way too many queens in his range. Fold.

I think a weak lead / call on this board actually is often the nuts from a grindy reg (the weak lead hopes to build a large pot multiway, the call is to not scare you away and let you keep bluffing or value-owning yourself). Once the J peels, JQ figures it's gotta just ship and hope to look bluffy in case you slow down. Again, fold.

Last edited by pocketzeroes; 02-23-2015 at 08:06 PM.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-23-2015 , 10:38 PM
I don't know. There's really no hand we can have w a Q that raises the flop. If he's creative and thinking, I'd have to call. Since he shoved quickly, he would have had to come up with the plan to shove BEFORE the card was dealt. I'd have to lean towards folding unless I knew he could pull a play like this. He has some Qs in his range and I'd feel like a total donk paying him off in this spot without a good reason to.

Fwiw, your earlier comment could have made you a target to be outplayed. Even if that WAS my plan, I wouldn't vocalize it to my opponent. I usually don't look to give my opponents extra incentive to make moves against me. I prefer to give off a "I'm just here to have fun" vibe.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-24-2015 , 02:59 PM
It felt like he was trying to make a play at me, we were both the youngest, most serious I'd guess you say players at the table. Also why would he snap jam a queen.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-24-2015 , 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrex003
It felt like he was trying to make a play at me, we were both the youngest, most serious I'd guess you say players at the table. Also why would he snap jam a queen.
The answer to your question is the question itself.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-24-2015 , 03:13 PM
Snap fold...your beat.
Move to the next hand.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-24-2015 , 03:16 PM
With an almost pot-sized bet remaining, I think you have to fold here. If instead of raising roughly 1/3rd pot (100 into 270) on the flop you made a more reasonable sized raise then Villain could show you a straight and you'd have odds to call.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-24-2015 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrex003
It felt like he was trying to make a play at me, we were both the youngest, most serious I'd guess you say players at the table. Also why would he snap jam a queen.
Well, if you can give him credit for being a very high level 2/5 thinker than sure - he might have figured out that you have very few queens in your range and is jamming light figuring that you will fold all non-queen hands.

Here on planet Earth though, people who play on their tablets all game and are barely paying attention to you are basically never capable of this. He's just playing a queen poorly, simple as that. Easy decision.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-24-2015 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketzeroes
The answer to your question is the question itself.
Care to elaborate?

Also what would be a more reasonable sized raise raising $50 to $250 or something like that seems odd.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-24-2015 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by discgolfing
Well, if you can give him credit for being a very high level 2/5 thinker than sure - he might have figured out that you have very few queens in your range and is jamming light figuring that you will fold all non-queen hands.

Here on planet Earth though, people who play on their tablets all game and are barely paying attention to you are basically never capable of this. He's just playing a queen poorly, simple as that. Easy decision.
Hero with "lag image" has plenty of queens in his range. Regardless "higher level thinking" is trouble in this spot - villain is more likely to reason that hero thinks villain thinks hero never has a queen than he is to pray that hero won't call with two pair plus, and yes plenty of straights.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-24-2015 , 05:46 PM
Just fold. Nothing in the world will make you feel dumber than over-thinking the situation, calling, and watching the villain calmly flip over a queen.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote
02-24-2015 , 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrex003
Also what would be a more reasonable sized raise raising $50 to $250 or something like that seems odd.
Move back down to 1/2 if this is your thought process. Raising needs to take into account the pot size and effective stack sizes among other things. The opponents absolute bet size is not the main factor for raise size.
2/5 Turn decision with set vs Grindy reg on 4 liner straight Quote

      
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